Template:Did you know nominations/Gourd mouth organ

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by MeegsC (talk) 15:08, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Gourd mouth organ

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Art from Tang dynasty showing a musician playing the mouth organ (2nd left)

~~... that the gourd mouth organ (pictured) was invented 3000 years ago?~~ Source: Sachs, C. (2012). The history of musical instruments. Courier Corporation. ISBN 0486171515
- ALT1:... that the gourd mouth organ (pictured) is believed to be invented by Chinese goddess Nüwa?
- ALT2:... that the tallest gourd mouth organ (pictured) can go up to about 12 feet? Source: Chapman, A. (2005). Breath and bamboo: Diasporic Lao identity and the Lao mouth-organ. Journal of Intercultural Studies, 26(1-2), 5-20.
- ALT3: ... that the gourd mouth organ (pictured) was invented in the third millennium B.C. and the tallest can go up to about twelve feet? Source: Sachs, C. (2012). The history of musical instruments. Courier Corporation. ISBN 0486171515. p 184.; Chapman, A. (2005). Breath and bamboo: Diasporic Lao identity and the Lao mouth-organ. Journal of Intercultural Studies, 26(1-2), 5-20.

5x expanded by Ryssian (talk). Self-nominated at 02:11, 24 May 2021 (UTC).

, ALT & ALT2. (ALT1, has no source, and doesn't make clear who holds that belief). New enough (expanded), Long enough, Within policy (neutral, sourced, copyright free, interesting hook, 1st nomination for QPQ, and image is fine. perhaps ALTs could be combined. Bogger (talk) 10:23, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your feedback! Ryssian (talk) 22:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

None of the hooks are in the article. Also my copy of Sachs from 2006 doesn't mention this organ. For this to progress you'll need to put hooks into the article with a reference at the end of sentence of those hooks. Desertarun (talk) 18:46, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hi there, the book can be found here through this link: https://books.google.com.au/books?hl=en&lr=&id=W615TIDz97UC&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=The+history+of+musical+instruments.+Courier+Corporation.&ots=vAL-WY-BdY&sig=jyXmr_iyVjqrXhmD-qQXC0L6xgE&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=phoenix&f=false, on page 184. Ryssian (talk) 05:40, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Hooks combined as requested and references added at the end of the hook. Ryssian (talk) 05:40, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Note: I've restored the original hooks, which should be left in place, and labeled the new hook ALT3. Desertarun, does ALT3 work? I'm concerned about the "third millennium B.C." mention, since the article says "believed to be" and then goes on to note that the earliest recorded mention is 1100 B.C. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:04, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

I've checked the hook refs and I'm finding it tricky. Sachs says "THE MOUTH ORGAN (Chinese shêng, Japanese shô) was originally made with a gourd. Today the gourd is replaced by a piece of wood cut in the same" and later "In China the mouth organ is said to have been invented by Emperor Nyu-kwa in the third millennium B.C. as an imitation of the bird Phoenix" and "In the most highly developed form of the raft-shaped mouth organ, in Middle and South Laos, the two rafts, sometimes as tall as twelve feet, are laid on top of each other and this double raft pierces through an elongated, wooden windchest". Sachs is discussing mouth organs not specifically gourd mouth organs, making me wonder if these refs are applicable or not. I don't know? Desertarun (talk) 19:07, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

I've just re-read Sachs and it is a little clunky and unclear but not WP:OR or otherwise problematic. Desertarun (talk) 08:31, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Alt4... that the gourd mouth organ is said to have been created in the third millennium B.C. as a likeness of the Phoenix?

Review The article is new enough, long enough, QPQ is not required, copyvio is clear apart from quotes and simple descriptions of the organ which are unavoidable. The picture is public domain. I've struck the other Alts because I can't verify them. I've added Alt4 myself which is based upon the source Sachs. The source Sachs is being used in the article without page numbers, I personally can let that go but it would be up to the next reviewer to decide on that and Alt4. Desertarun (talk) 08:31, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

New reviewer requested and should be aware the nominator was a student and has not edited recently. Desertarun (talk) 08:31, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Needs some light copyediting, and as Desertarun said above, the citations need page numbers ideally, but this reviewer considers neither of these obstacles to DYK. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:14, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Changed wikilink to fenghuang as Phoenix (mythology) is about the creature of Western myth. The two are conflated all the time, though, so either wikilink is fine. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:11, 23 July 2021 (UTC)