Template:Did you know nominations/Cartography of Jerusalem
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:35, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
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Cartography of Jerusalem edit
The Den Haag map of Crusader Jerusalem
... that most pre-modern historical maps of Jerusalem were made by Europeans?Source: Rubin, 2008, pages 125, 130, 136: "It is important, too, to note that these maps of the Holy City were made by Christians for a European Christian audience, at a time when Jerusalem was in the hands of the Muslims [Footnote: Indeed, there is a rather different genre of images of Jerusalem that was common among the [Christian] Orthodox, and only a few Jewish and Muslim graphic images are known from that period]... most of the early printed maps were made by Christians for a Christian audience, and they strived to create and promote a Christian image of the Holy City, even though it was under Muslim rule... The maps aimed at creating the image of an eternal Christian city as an alternative to the reality of a poor Oriental town."
Created by Onceinawhile (talk). Self-nominated at 22:41, 24 December 2018 (UTC).
- Drive-by comment: Isn't this hook fact well known? Perhaps it would be hookier to add more of the details from the source, that "these maps of the Holy City were made by Christians for a European Christian audience, at a time when Jerusalem was in the hands of the Muslims". Yoninah (talk) 15:31, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Yoninah, it may well be, but wasn’t to me. I'm not convinced by the “in the hands of Muslims” reference, because the point is relevant even before the advent of Islam. Another source says:
- Levy-Rubin & Rubin 1996, p. 352: "Although Jerusalem was indeed holy to Jews and Muslims as well as to Christians, there are almost no such depictions of the city that were drawn by either of the first two groups; it seems that generally this was a Christian genre."
- Maybe a hook derived from this is more interesting?
- Onceinawhile (talk) 19:12, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Onceinawhile: yes. I just thought that "Christians" or "European Christians" should be mentioned, rather than just Europeans. Yoninah (talk) 19:15, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Yoninah, it may well be, but wasn’t to me. I'm not convinced by the “in the hands of Muslims” reference, because the point is relevant even before the advent of Islam. Another source says:
Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:55, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
- But we're still waiting for a new hook from Onceinawhile. Yoninah (talk) 15:08, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: how about the below? I left out "European" because Madaba was not European and the Crusader ones are debatable.
- ALT1
... that almost all pre-modern historical maps of Jerusalem were made by Chistians?Source: Levy-Rubin & Rubin 1996, p. 352: "Although Jerusalem was indeed holy to Jews and Muslims as well as to Christians, there are almost no such depictions of the city that were drawn by either of the first two groups; it seems that generally this was a Christian genre."
- ALT1
- Onceinawhile (talk) 16:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Let's start a review. New enough, long enough, well referenced. But while the article exceeds 1500 characters, it definitely feels start-class. You start the History section with one paragraph, and then end the article. The section on List of maps of Jerusalem is empty. There are no images for what is obviously an illustrative subject. The image on this nomination is not in the article. Do you plan to expand this article more? Regarding the hook, I would prefer to see the whole quote mentioned in the article and hook:- ALT1a
... that almost all pre-modern historical maps of Jerusalem were made by Christians for a Christian audience? - QPQ done. Yoninah (talk) 20:34, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: how about the below? I left out "European" because Madaba was not European and the Crusader ones are debatable.
- Hi @Yoninah: thank you. I am happy with your ALT1a. As to the article, those are all excellent points, and consistent with my intentions. I have built the article further today and will continue to do so. I will ping you again when I am done. Onceinawhile (talk) 12:48, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Hi @Yoninah: this is all done. Onceinawhile (talk) 23:46, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you. The article looks in good shape now, definitely start-class. I suggest combining your two hooks and re-piping the link, as it looks odd to have "pre-modern" and "historical" running together:
- ALT1b: ... that almost all pre-modern maps of Jerusalem (example pictured) were made by Christians for a Christian European audience? Yoninah (talk) 22:41, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
ALT1b offline hook (provided) AGF and cited inline. No close paraphrasing seen. All images in article freely licensed. QPQ done. Rest of review above. ALT1b good to go. Yoninah (talk) 22:41, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:27, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
- Hi @Yoninah: this is all done. Onceinawhile (talk) 23:46, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
- Hi @Yoninah: thank you. I am happy with your ALT1a. As to the article, those are all excellent points, and consistent with my intentions. I have built the article further today and will continue to do so. I will ping you again when I am done. Onceinawhile (talk) 12:48, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
