Template:Did you know nominations/Aviation in Indonesia

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PFHLai (talk) 05:59, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Aviation in Indonesia edit

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Garuda Indonesia and Lion Air airplanes

~~... that between 2009 and 2014 the number of Indonesia's air passengers increased more than threefold, from 27,421,235 to 94,504,086?~~

ALT1:~~... that by 2034 Indonesia is expected to be the world's sixth largest market for air travel, with 270 million passengers?~~
ALT2:~~... that Indonesia is an emerging market for air travel in the region?~~

Created/expanded by Gunkarta (talk). Self nominated at 06:09, 7 November 2015 (UTC).

There are multiple paragraphs without any inline citations. DYK requires at least one citation per paragraph. Best.4meter4 (talk) 06:55, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I will fix the issues of article soon. --Human3015^TALK 10:43, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

It's been over a week and there are still large sections of the article with no inline citations. The editor has been active on wikipedia daily since he commented here. I think it is time to decline this nomination.4meter4 (talk) 02:11, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Recently I've add references for many sections. Please review it again. Gunkarta talk 03:29, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:55, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Struck ALT1 above. Close paraphrasing from this source. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:50, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
~~Struck hook. Per this source, the actual figures are 70,912,258 (1996–2000) and 94,504,086 (2011–2015). North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:59, 12 December 2015 (UTC)~~

Unstruck hook. Content is now verified in the article. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:21, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Matters that are acceptable: Nominator is exempt from having to perform a QPQ review, per QPQ check results, all paragraphs/sections in the list areas of the article have inline citations. I removed some content that consisted of copyright violation and close paraphrasing, after which, the article clears checks for copyvio (e.g. [1]), image is properly licensed.

Unfortunately, the article was not nominated for DYK within seven days of creation (created on 25 October 2015‎), and was not expanded five-fold thereafter, (e.g. version on 26 October 2015 compared to last version on 7 November 2015, so this does not qualify. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:13, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Given that the article was created from nothing; that it's a big topic and lots of work has been done it, I think we should give it another chance. It needs more cleanup and copy-editing so I'll do some work myself and suggest another hook, as the current ones seem quite dull. For example, the early history may be more interesting, "Indonesian military aviation preceded independence in 1949 as an aviation division of the People's Peace Preservation Force and was ... The new air arm had just five Indonesian pilots and used abandoned Japanese aircraft." Andrew D. (talk) 11:19, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Per the rules, this technically cannot proceed, and I'm not aware of any precedent for proceeding with DYK nominations that do not pass all rules. Per the WP:IAR notion of somehow moving forward anyway, below are some alts that could work. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:34, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
ALT3: ~~... that aviation in Indonesia is predicted to become the world's sixth largest air travel market by 2034?~~
ALT4: ~~... that between 2009 and 2014 the number of Indonesia's air passengers increased by over 23 million?~~

First time nominators are typically allowed some leeway (frequently with invocations to WP:IAR); in this case, the article was less than a week late, and the nominator had only been given a talk-page notification about the possibility of nominating this at DYK the day before. I'd be inclined to allow an exception this time. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:07, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Per the above suggestions by Andrew Davidson and BlueMoonset, I also support moving forward per WP:IAR. Yes, the nominator nominated the day after receiving the November 6th notification on their talk page (diff). At this point, I have struck ALT2 because it is still unsourced in the article. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

WP:AGF/WP:IAR Good to go for the hook, ALT3 AND ALT4. I'll leave it to a potential promoter to choose one of the hooks. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:32, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I will go for the original initial hook (2009 to 2014 passengers comparison) since it is now well-sourced. Thank you for all your understanding and kind efforts. You see, I'm not quite familiar with DYK rules and almost gave up on the nomination, but then again, thank you.., Cheers. Gunkarta talk 14:02, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

There appears to be copying of text from the sources in the list of aviation incidents and accidents. See Earwigs Copyvio Detector comparisons here and here. Yoninah (talk) 22:17, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I've done the copying only from other wikipedia article: Lion Air#Incidents and accidents. Apparently the "alleged" source you have kindly provided with links: ferrari chat (posted in 04-13-2013, 08:27 AM by forum user BlueBiturbo) and Free republic forum (posted on 4/13/2013, 11:02:33 PM by forum user Moose4) are actually the one that have done "copy vio" by copying from wikipedia article Lion Air#Incidents and accidents. Just examine the history of Lion Air article, you'll see the wikipedia article is actually older than the date of posts in these forums (13 April 2013). Note: please be careful on examining forum or chat sites as the possible source of wikipedia copyvio, it is more likely that the forum users was the one that quoting the wikipedia article instead. Gunkarta talk 06:03, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, that's interesting. Earwigs is citing sources that don't even appear in this article. Sorry about that. So it appears that you copied the text from the Lion Air article, which did have reliable sources. Per WP:CWW, you need to add a Template:Copied template to the talk page to record that. Also, for the purposes of DYK Rule D2, each paragraph here needs an inline cite. Would you be able to add those? Yoninah (talk) 10:46, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I have add inline citations of each paragraphs and also the incident and accident list. Gunkarta talk 10:56, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. You have put a ton of work into this article and it shows! It should be a shoe-in for GA now. Here is a full review: New enough (IAR on 14-day nomination for first-time nominator), long enough, well referenced, neutrally written, no close paraphrasing seen. All paragraphs have at least one citation. Per page creator's request, original hook is accepted; however, I suggest deleting one of the numbers and writing out the second number for readability, as follows:
ALT5: ... that between 2009 and 2014 the number of Indonesia's air passengers increased more than threefold, to over 94 million?
Hook refs verified and cited inline. Image is freely licensed. No QPQ needed for first-time nominator. Good to go. Yoninah (talk) 22:16, 19 December 2015 (UTC)