Template:Did you know nominations/Akshi Upanishad

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 18:46, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Akshi Upanishad edit

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Sun god or Surya

... that in the Akshi Upanishad, the Sun states that Brahmavidya is difficult to learn but once acquired will result in self-realization?

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Zurayq

Created by Nvvchar (talk). Self-nominated at 17:25, 12 June 2015 (UTC).

New enough, interesting, long enough, hook is sourced to reliable source. No close paraphrasing or neutrality detected. Good to go.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:14, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Brahmavidya according to the Wikipedia article, is knowledge of scripture, not "the absolute universal reality", so there is a contradiction there that needs to be resolved. Gatoclass (talk) 05:29, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

The etymology section of the Brahmavidya article says "the Upanishad sections of the vedas, the word Brahma means the absolute universal reality called Brahman." I had therfroe based my hook on this meaning.--Nvvchar. 06:50, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

They are two different words. "Brahma" or "Brahman" might mean "absolute reality", but Brahmavidya, according to the article, means knowledge of absolute reality gained through study of Hindu scripture. I don't know if that is the correct definition because the article doesn't have an online source, but that issue will have to be resolved before this nomination can be passed. Gatoclass (talk) 07:32, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

These references may help clarify the meaning of Brahmavidya as meant in the hook text. In [1] it is said "Brahmavidya is to remove this cloud of ignorance, which obscures the nature of soul and makes manifest the real form of Jiva.". In [2] its meaning in other Upanishad's is explained. In [3] it said "is an undifferentiated mental mode, comprehending the non-dual reality (Brahman), Bhakthi on the other hand" and compared with Bhakthi. --Nvvchar. 09:33, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

I've done some checking up on this - vidya means "knowledge", Brahmavidya means "knowledge of Brahman" or ultimate reality. The Wikipedia article says "Brahmavidya" is, specifically, knowledge of Brahman acquired through scripture but I was unable to confirm that. So this one can probably be promoted with minimal changes. I'll see if I can come up with a suitable hook. Gatoclass (talk) 11:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Long enough, well written, referenced and part of a useful series of articles. Hook might need amending to define Brahmavidya more clearly--Battleofalma (talk) 18:48, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Since the previous reviewer had already said the hook was not suitable, it is inappropriate to approve the nomination with a caveat that the hook might need amending; approval means the hook is absolutely fine as it is. I have struck the existing hook; this nomination needs a new one. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:24, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree he should not have approved before the hook issue was resolved, but I believe the hook is fine now since I trimmed it of the erroneous statement. It just needs somebody to approve the current hook now. Gatoclass (talk) 05:28, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I question whether anyone will understand this hook without some definition for Brahmavidya provided in it. Looking at the Wikipedia article on Brahmavidya, it appears that it describes the current usage of the word, not the previous usage relevant to this hook. It actually states early in the text of the article what the current word is derived from: "Put together, it means knowledge of the mantra/absolute." In other words, the article is stating that Brahmavidya is the knowledge of the absolute, and currently that knowledge is believed to derive from scripture. I propose an alt hook that includes this definition. Without it, most people on the main page will be left clueless. I've also done some minor copyediting. ~ Rob^Talk 04:04, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that in the Akshi Upanishad, the Sun states that Brahmavidya, the knowledge of the absolute, is difficult to learn but will result in self-realization once acquired?

I considered that, but it struck me as a bit nonsensical as "knowledge of the absolute" and "self realization" might be considered the same thing, in which case the hook reads "that self-realization is difficult to learn but once acquired results in self-realization?" Also, I think it makes the hook gratuitously longer - brahmavidya is linked so readers can click on it if they are unfamiliar with the term. Gatoclass (talk) 04:40, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Anyhow, somebody please confirm one or both of the hooks so we can move on. Gatoclass (talk) 11:56, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Am I right? Did you have all this discussion without checking whether the fact had a reference? Can someone (@Nvvchar:?) add it please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Victuallers (talk • contribs) 20:43, 6 August 2015‎ (UTC)

Oh I cant be bothered to wait so I have added the ref. I've approved this based of Nvvchar being experienced but I am worried that this article has only one source for nearly all of its content. Can we fix next time please. Victuallers (talk) 20:55, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

This article is mostly a plot summary, and is cited from the primary source. This appears in line with MOS:PLOT. Through spot-checking, I haven't found instances of commentary cited with the primary source. ~ Rob^Talk 04:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

To be clear, the above comment is in support of using one source for most of this article. This hook is good to go. Adding tick to this comment so that this is obvious to those doing prep work. ~ Rob^Talk 07:58, 8 August 2015 (UTC)