Talk:You Really Got Me/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ojorojo (talk · contribs) 18:06, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I'll be happy to review this. Give me a couple of days to put my initial comments together. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:06, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Ojorojo! Thanks for taking the time to review this. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 18:23, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Very interesting article about a true classic of the era. Close to GA-status, but needs some MOS tweaks. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

@Ojorojo: First set of revisions done - did some rewording and added new info to lead, minor changes to infobox. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 00:32, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Beatleswhobeachboys, I've made some minor corrections that I thought were easier than listing them. Change if you disagree. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:26, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Ojorojo - thanks for correcting: I only changed one little grammar error (Dave Davies was referred to as the Kink's guitarist, which I changed to Kinks'). Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 23:31, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Good job, let's wrap it up. Please finish the bit about the quotes in the lead (see Lead "Power chords/influence second section" below). I made a few corrections, change as you see fit. —Ojorojo (talk) 21:17, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Ok. I didn't make any revisions: I think your edits were very good in cleaning up the article. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 21:50, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Added some more stuff - expanded live, added a couple more facts in the other sections, and created a "Music and lyrics" section for that bit in the lead that wasn't in the body. Change anything you need to. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 01:07, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Infobox

• 7" single
  • Appears too informal, maybe seven-inch single? Or seven-inch 45 rpm single? —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Changed to 7" 45 rpm single
      • OK, several song FAs use 7", although WP:UNITS Specific units states "Do not use ′ (′), ″ (″), apostrophe/​single quote (') or double quote (")", instead use "in" if necessary to abbreviate. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
        • OK, will change

• Reprise 0306
  • According to Template:Infobox single#Label, only the original (in this case Pye) should be listed. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Cut Reprise info

Lead

• ... performed by The Kinks.
  • "The" in band names is not capitalized midsentence WP:THECAPS. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.
      • Please change throughout article. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
        • Changed a couple more. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:26, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

• No. 1, No. 7
  • Use "number", instead of No.; numbers less than ten are written out "number one, number seven" MOS:SPELL09. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.
      • Several song FAs ("Hey Jude", "Like a Rolling Stone", "Smells Like Teen Spirit") use number and spell out numbers less than ten (one, seven, but digits are used for 10 and above). Please change throughout article, —Ojorojo (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
        • @Ojorojo: revised: if I missed any, let me know. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 19:46, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
          • Changed a couple more. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:26, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

• References and links in the lead
  • According to WP:LEADCITE, sources in the lead are not necessary, except for actual quotes, because the material must be included and referenced in the body. Also, links should be used for topics that are closely related to the subject MOS:CONTEXTLINK. Maybe, unlink words like single, UK singles chart, hit song, etc. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Removed most citations
• It was released..., It was the group's..., It was later included...
  • Try to use more active voice or variety. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.
• Power chords/influence second section
  • The first sentence seems redundant, plus quotes in the lead must be included in the body. Maybe leave/expand the first sentence and move the second with the quotes to the "Recording" section. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Reworked paragraph; the second sentence is still in the opening, but I have merged the first sentence into the other parts
      • Maybe you just haven't added it yet, but neither the ideas in the quotes nor the refs are included in the body of the article. According to WP:LEAD, "Apart from trivial basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." Perhaps address the use of guitar power chords and the song as precursor to hard rock and heavy metal along with the use of distortion in the "Recording" or "Release and reception" sections. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:17, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

• No mention of writing or recording
  • A mention of going through several demos and their struggle to record their vision may be interesting (and a brief mention of the Page controversy). —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.
• Quotation marks outside of punctuation
  • Unless the actual quotation does differently, quotation marks (including for song titles) should go inside punctuation (MOS:QUOTEMARKS). —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.
• No mention of Van Halen
  • Since there is a long section devoted to their version, some overview should be included in the lead. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Added VH
• "Best of" details
  • The lead should include a general overview and not be burdened with too many details. Maybe, "'YRGM' was inducted into the GHOF and several music publications have included it on various 'Best of' lists in recognition of its enduring popularity and influence". Also, the details need to be included somewhere in the body, such as an "Accolades/Recognition/Awards" section. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Moved info down to Release & Reception section

Background

• 'YRGM' was first written by Ray Davies ...
  • Up to this point, he hasn't been identified. Maybe include, "...Ray Davies, the Kinks' vocalist and main songwriter ..."
    • Done.
• the song's characteristic riff came about while working out the chords of The Kingsmen's "Louie Louie"
  • Chronologically, I think this refers to the last, guitar-power chord driven version and should be listed last. The blues and jazz references probably apply more to the inspiration and earlier versions. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.

Recording

• The amplifier was affectionately called "little green" ... slaved into a Vox AC-30.
  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but slaving essentially uses one amp's pre-amp in place of or in addition to a second amp's pre-amp. In other words, little green's pre-amp would be driving the Vox's power section with all the sound coming out of the latter – little green's power section (and its output to the "modified" speaker would be bypassed). To get the little green speaker sound out of the Vox, it would have to be miked, a different technique than slaving. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
    • OK. I personally am not very knowledgeable about these techinques, so I will take your word for it.
      • I re-read the ref and it's not clear exactly how he did it, so I changed it to something more consistent with the vague ref. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:26, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
• Recent Kinks' releases have given full official credits ...
  • Does this mean writer's credits or performance credits? If the latter, who were listed as the performers before? —Ojorojo (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Reworded.

Guitar solo

• ... one of the most controversial and persistent myths in all of rock and roll ..."
  • This type of statement needs an inline citation to a RS. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Cut this phrase.
• ... UK rhythm and blues community ...
  • The term "rhythm and blues" has a different meaning in the UK than US. Maybe British rhythm and blues would be a better link. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.
• ... interview with the blog Finding Zoso:
  • Even though it's an interview, fansite blogs are problematic (WP:USERG, WP:BLOGS). I think the Sound on Sound, Guardian and Sirius interviews provide enough RS on the Page issue and FZ is unneeded. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Cut this quote.
• Ray Davies, in his autobiographical release Storyteller ...
  • This is a difficult paragraph. How about something like "In his autobiographical release Storyteller, Ray Davies discusses the guitar solo. He confirms that his brother Dave played the solo and it was preceded by some bantering between the two: 'Halfway through the song ... [cite using Template:Cite AV media for track on Storyteller (LyricsTime.com is probably copyrightvio)]"" —Ojorojo (talk) 17:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.
      • Removed ref to ASIN (Amazon product number). Replaced LyricsTime.com with cite media. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:26, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Release and reception

Live history

• Infobox
  • This single doesn't appear important enough for an infobox – the references don't provide critical commentary and it didn't chart. Also, the subsection is too small to allow for it. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • I don't know... to me it makes navigation a lot easier. Also, lots of links to the song redirect to this section, making it a good visual. I can cut out much of the redundant info (writer, genre, format, etc.) and maybe the pic, though. I'll try to find more for the live info as well.
      • Looks much less overwhelming. If you link Lowell Memorial Auditorium, maybe you can drop Lowell, MA (actually Massachusetts should be spelled out). —Ojorojo (talk) 21:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

• Both Ray and Dave Davies still perform the song ...
  • Since this probably comes later in the chronology, it would be better at the end of the subsection. A ref would also be helpful. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Moved to end: would setlist.fm be a reliable source for the ref? Otherwise, I can't find a source.
      • Not entirely necessary (setlist.fm is user generated, so it can't be used). —Ojorojo (talk) 21:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Personnel

• • This section is unneeded. The 1964 version personnel is already listed in the "Recording" section and the 1979 live version is not important enough for a listing. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Removed.

Charts

• Year-end charts
  • Please move further to the right, so they appear more as two columns and don't abut. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.

• Chart succession
  • This should be placed at the footer, directly above the artist navboxes ("Little Red Rooster" provides an example of identifying a particular version in an article). —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.

Van Halen version

• Infobox
  • The "Format" field should be consistent with the Kinks' infobox. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.

• Cover
  • "Cover" is overused in this section (at one time "cover song" had a negative implication). Maybe alternate with some other wordings. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Done.

• as an "updated" version of the original ...
  • Are there any RS that might discuss how it differs from the original?
    • Added allmusic quotes.

• The Kinks' Dave Davies has gone on record ..
  • This sentence needs an inline citation. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Added.

• He also told of how Kinks fans ...
  • If the ref, Davies says "Some kid came up to me after one of the gigs". Also, the cite lists "Road Runner Records" but the link is to Blabbermouth. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Fixed.

• ... how Van Halen fans have approached him ..
  • This doesn't appear in the ref. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Removed.

• Ray Davies, on the other hand ...
  • I remember hearing a live version by the Kinks (1980s?), where Ray parodies one of Roth's vocal mannerisms. It's a good example of his sense of humor. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • That's pretty clever on Ray's part! I'll try to find a reliable source to add that.
      • Having trouble finding anything: if you had a source for this live version, it would be much obliged. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 22:31, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
        • I listened to 4–5 live versions from this period and didn't find it. It is interesting that in concert, the Kinks often deconstructed the song and ad libbed portions. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

• References
  • For consistency, references that have author, title, year, publisher, ISBN should be listed in "Sources" subsection, with sfn used for citation with page. These include Creswell and Walser. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
    • OK: revised

• Infobox: "Hard rock" – ref link is dead. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • • Used different source

• Recording: full performance credits – Picture Book links to album review, not booklet; The Kinks Deluxe Edition uses cite web but has no link. Change both using Template:Cite AV media notes and link with OCLC #s. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • • Used AV media

• Guitar solo: Jon Lord – incorrectly shown cite. Use Template:Cite web. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Re-did cite

• Release and reception: in BBC poll – provide cite; Q magazine and VH1 – citations incorrectly show orig & archive info. Use temp cite web to show similar info as Rolling Stone ref. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Re-did cite

• Live history: remained a mainstay in concert – since there are page numbers for the rest of the Hinman refs, this should have one too; even after twenty years ... – it would look more RS if the website were identified as "Dave Davies (official website)" or "davedavies.com" —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • I did that because throughout the entire book there are setlists (not one specific statement that said it was a mainstay) I can cut it if it isn't relevant

• Charts: Year-end charts – although titled "Official Charts Company" and Billboard Year-End, these appear to link to user generated-list sites that are not on WP:GOODCHARTS. Please replace or remove. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:27, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Found new source for Billboard, cut UK chart

• Images, etc.
  • The musical notation for the riff is unreferenced and misleading. It shows a key of B♭ major. Dave described writing it with alternating G and F chords and one sheet music chart shows the key of G major. The song itself sounds like A♭, although it later shifts to B♭, etc. (OR). Unless you can find a RS, this should be left out. —Ojorojo (talk) 21:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
    • OK: image cut.
  • Why are "Guitar solo" and "Live history" subsections? It seems they function as regular sections. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:27, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
    • I thought that they tied in with Recording / Release... I changed it, though. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 19:58, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Criteria

GA review (see here for criteria)

Most of these points are addressed above. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   The last MOS lead issue has been resolved.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   The sources are RS.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Covers all the points.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Thanks Beatleswhobeachboys. The Kinks' Greatest Hits! was the first album I bought (mono, because it was more affordable $2.69?). This should qualify for DYK if you're interested. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

@Ojorojo Thanks for passing! The Kinks are a great band with so many amazing songs (even in the eighties they could manage gems such as "Better Things" and "Come Dancing"), but info is kind of scarce. Though for the hits, such as this one and "Lola," there's more to find. Thanks for your in-depth review, once again! Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 15:03, 3 May 2015 (UTC)