Talk:Xarrë

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Infobox name

The article, and therefore by extension the infobox, covers the entire municipality. Given that Greeks are at least 53% of the municipality (and that's according to the controversial 2011 census, so the true figure may be even higher), I think it's WP:DUE for the Greek name to appear in the infobox. Khirurg (talk) 02:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Xarrë has no significant Greek population and the name is covered in the name section. Nishjan (talk) 15:41, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't know if you read the sources, but they say the municipality is 53% Greek. If you can't find it, I can help you find it. Khirurg (talk) 03:00, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Yet the 2011 census according to you was problematic. So in wikipedia we wont be based on problematic censuses only when it suits the greek side. Since the boycott was purely political other political strategies were used to dispute the neutrality of the census (such as greek pensions) so i think Kallivretakis is a way more reliable source as you have suggested on a lot of other articles. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 07:49, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Absolutely. Several attempts like this one have been made on other articles. You've been critizing this census for years, however, when it suits some people, it can be used to put a name into a infobox. Also assuming that Greeks are at least 53% of the municipality is not how that works and you know that. Perhaps Kallivretakis is more reliable. AlexBachmann (talk) 18:57, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Comment: Besides the 2011 controversial census, there is also a more recent secondary source based on extensive ethnographic fieldwork, that confirms the Greek presence in the village of Xarrë; not just the homonymous commune, in general. From Heritage for Development, Multiethnic Communities, and the Case of Butrint National Park on the Albanian-Greek Border (2016) by Dana Phelps, we read:

• p. 37: The case study presented in this paper is an account of six months of ethnographic fieldwork that I conducted between 2010 and 2013 in the villages within the UNESCO World Heritage site of Butrint National Park, located on the Albanian-Greek border.
• p. 41: The Commune of Xarrë is situated on the Vrinë Plain, across the Vivari Channel and opposite the archaeological site. The commune encompasses the villages of Shëndëlli, Vrinë, Xarrë, and Mursi, which are the primary villages represented in this study.
• p. 43: However, within BNP, there is more than one community. The village of Xarrë is inhabited by a Greek minority that is mostly Orthodox.
• p. 44: The third problem that the ethnography exposed was the socio-economic inequalities of these villages. For example, Xarrë profits more than the other villages do because, due to their Greek descent, many villagers move to Greece to make money, which they then send back to their families in Xarrë in the form of remittances.

I don't think having the Greek and Aromanian names in the infobox is such a big issue; they are even presented with small font size, which, mind you, is a violation of MOS:SMALL. Furthermore, per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, the purpose of an infobox is to summarize key facts that appear in the article (not just the lead); and per MOS:INFOBOXGEO, alternative or native toponyms can appear within it. Demetrios1993 (talk) 03:17, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Excellent points as usual, thank you Demetrios. On the other hand, I find it odd that the people who were trying to remove Kallivretakis from other articles because the source was "too old" and "thirty years old", are all of a sudden saying something...different. Khirurg (talk) 15:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC)`

If there is no other newer source after kallivretakis he is good to go. And why would you remove the italian name? RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 15:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Why would you add the Italian name? Are there any Italians in Xarre? Do you even have a source? Khirurg (talk) 15:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I dont see a Greek source either only the aromanian one. Anyway im adding the source-map published by "Narodni Technicke Museum" of Prague where the Italian/Latin cartographers have mentioned Xarrë as Cara. If we are about to add the names of a population less than 2% we might as well add the name it appears on Western Cartographies. As per the 2011 census, either accept it as a census and add it in Every Article or recognise it as a biased census from both sides (since the boycott clearly is a political strategy to twist the real numbers and claim that every albanian who boycotted it also or didnt even cared to give an answer might be greek, and also since a census influenced by politics it has more than one way to twist the real number which one of them are the greek pensions as "Hellenes"). Whatever we agree and cooperate at least should not be hypocritical as to deny the census in Himarë and to accept it in Xarrë. Only because its in favour of the Greek Side. Its plain hypocrisy. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 16:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

There is not a single Italian in Xarre, either now or in the past so no, we're not going to add the Italian name, no matter how many "Western Cartographies" you find. It's simple WP:UNDUE, and that's that. There are policies for names, and you can't just add whatever names you want. You haven't provided a single valid reason for adding it. Khirurg (talk) 17:51, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

As Demetrios provided convenient sources that support the claim, I'll agree to have the names on the infobox. AlexBachmann (talk) 19:24, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

New addition

@Khirurg what does an alleged ancestry have to do with the modern name? A separate section would be more convenient. AlexBachmann (talk) 08:40, 28 October 2023 (UTC)