Talk:Wood Badge/Archive 1

Wood Beads

"Commonly known as Wood Beads"??? To who? I've never heard this term before. How common (if at all) is this term? --Emb021

I've been Scouting in two nations (Philippines and United States), but never heard the wood badge called as "wood beads". -Mang Kiko 04:46, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Not only have I never heard of Wood Beads, the link to it is circular, returning to Wood Badge. --Gadget850 14:49, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

I've heard it used within the UK

The term is commonly used in Australia, where they are referred to as 'Beads' and Leaders who have completed the training are occassionally referred to as being 'beaded'. Commonly used language in Australia also refers to Leaders having their 'Woodbeads' - only rarely are persons referred to as having the Woodbadge. Hmc3590

well, in the BSA, people will refer to their "Wood Badge beads" (or just "beads'), and we will talk of 'beading ceremonies' and being 'beaded', but no one says "wood beads". Its always "wood badge". --Emb021 16:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

£7,000

On the Gilwell Park page the sum is given as £10,000. I don't know which is correct. Jim 02:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Woodbadge recognition outside Scouting

In reference to the Australian claim: Wood Badge is recognized by the Philippines' Department of Education as a leadership training for teacher and towards their teaching credits to renew their licenses. -Mang Kiko 09:48, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

well, to add to this. In the US, the BSA for a period of time had gotten Wood Badge recognized as "CEU" (Continuing Education Units). This is sort of 'college credit' for recognized non-college training/education. However, it costs money to have something be recognized as CEU. Few were apparently taking advantage of this, and so the BSA has (in the last 5-10 years) stopped doing it. --Emb021 16:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio

I just deleted a large chunk of material that was obviously pulled from [1] (PDF). This article now needs a lot of work, (sigh) --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:12, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

The first Wood Badge training outside the U.K / in the Netherlands

A somewhat shorter Dutch text with a groupphoto of the first Gilwell training in the Netherlands: Gilwelltraining on scoutpedia.nl. Jan Schaap was allmost running Dutch Scouting on his own from 1911 to WW II. --Egel 19:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Related userbox templates

{{User Wood Badger}}

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Wood Badge vs Woodbadge

I've never heard of using the second form - anyone else? Horus Kol 11:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I've seen it, but I do believe the correct form is Wood Badge. Rlevse 11:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Ticket

Where is the spam in this paragraph? Paragraphs about other country programs discuss the fact that training consists of multiple parts or modules. Australian paragraph mentions a "project". Without discussion of the ticket in US it appears you just need to attend two weekends of training and you are ready for your regalia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GageParker (talk • contribs)

The Ticket is an integral part of all WB programs. It should have its own subsection under origins, or maybe a separate section, but not under a certain country and not mentioning a one country's peculiarities. Putting it just in USA part makes it look like it's only USA that does tickets, but they're not. For your ext link, what makes it look like spam is that it's pointing to a specific course, like when users point to their own units' web sites to promote their unit. As to whether this link is spam, I leave open for discussion from others. For now, please go ahead and make your ticket section non-country specific in an appropriate part of the article. Please consider joining the Scouting WikiProject if you like. One signs talk page entries, but not article entries. Rlevse 19:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I will look into Scouting Wikiproject. My first wiki work was on some sweeping overgeneralizations about committee members in the Scout Leader topic. My initial efforts to fix were rebuffed by a european who defended the offending statements by reminding me Scouting was a global topic. I decided to ignore the sweeping overgeneralizations in the lead paragraph and moved my comments under US and heard narry a peep.

I thought about putting the ticket under origins but reading the three topics already there I decided it would be better to rename Origins to Orgins and Meanings of Regalia...

I will move The ticket out of US but beg the forgiveness of someone in some country whose wood badge program does not use the ticket the same exact way as we do in the US. Unless you have earned a wood badge in a couple of different countries ... please remember to be gentle.

WRT to spaminess of the extrenal link work, I changed the label on one link to make it clear that the Pinetree website is a unofficial volunteer run site (there is a disclaimer proclaiming this fact on every page of that site). I added a link to the official BSA national site. I also added a link where I reported on the results of my ticket. According to the 5 pillars statement only this last change might be considered out of bounds as too much about my personal experience. I am not submitting this last link as an example of the best way to do a ticket but rather in the spirit that I might inspire other wood badgers especially folks outside of the US to also share the contents and results of their tickets so that a reader might get a sense of the range of roles and topics that ticket items might cover. I will abide by the comments of others as you suggest.GageParker 03:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

As you can see, I've moved the ticket part and made it non-USA specific. What this article needs now is more detail, refs, and wikilinks.Rlevse 03:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I was typing while you were fixing. I tweaked a little. I added my name to member section of scouting wikiprojectGageParker 05:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, I think "heart and mind" may be a bit too POV and emotional. Wiki is an encyclopedia, not an advertising platform. Rlevse 10:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing I'm possibly the "European" - I'm sorry if I got a bit overzealous in maintaining the globalisation of Scouting... I am interested in local differences in Scouting, though - I like learning about practices and traditions... like this ticket thing - never heard of it before. Anyways, welcome to the team - I'm sure your contributions will help improve the Scouting articles Horus Kol 21:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The ticket has been around a long time, it's even part of the Gilwell Song. I know some associations call it the "project".Rlevse 22:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Categories

Wood badge is not just part of BSA, so the category needs fixing... is there a world adult training category? Horus Kol 21:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

There wasn't, but I just made one. Right now it's a sub of Scouting cat, but we can change it later. Rlevse 22:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)...It's okay for WB to be in the training cat tree and associational trees (like bsa).Rlevse 22:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, shouldn't that mean that all other global articles can be put in national level categories? I seem to remember we were moving away from that last year... Horus Kol 18:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Like what? For Scouting yes, only in the main cat. Please give examples.Rlevse 19:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair point... I've been trying to find other examples, but they all seem to be in the Scouting category as near as I can tell... Horus Kol 10:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I see WB as rather unique. While it's int'l in that it's taught all over the globe, it's not taught on an int'l level except in a few cases. It's taught by local associations on a council/area basis. Let me know your thoughts on this. This also begs the question, should the cat "Scout leader training" include all leader training or just international leader training. Rlevse 19:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, Troop and District and so on are also fairly universal in Scouting, but the actual organisation and function of either level varies between countries, too... I guess they should be part of Scouting category. On the other hand, in this article, if we end up having a national category for training within each organisation, we could end up in a bit of a mess... Horus Kol 10:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I see your point, but I see the other point too. There's a conundrum here. BSA has enough articles to warrant it's own category for leader training and why would one not put WB in it? I also wonder are there other int'l training courses that we could put in the cat Scout Leader Training.Rlevse 11:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know... there are other international recognitions of achievement for Scout Leaders - the Bronze Wolf, for example... I can see where youre coming from with the BSA training and WB, but by categorising it only in BSA Leader Training makes it look a BSA specific award, and I think the article should be in a global category... if a US specific article is needed to complete the set in the BSA category, then that might be what we need to do - its been done before with things like Cub Scouts... Horus Kol 11:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Will mull over. Bronze Wolf is an award, not training. Wood Badge is both I guess. I've already made the Scout leader training cat and there's already an awards cat.Rlevse 12:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I understand that Bronze Wolf is an award not related to training - just an international example... Thanks for the cat's... Horus Kol 21:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Australia - Reference

The reference at the end of the Autstralia section does not support the view of the previous sentence that it is a world first. I have commented out the reference as someone might want to simply move it elsewhere. A problem remains of sourcing the world first. --Bduke 07:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

A ref at the end of a paragraph can be a generic ref for the whole paragraph. Anyway, I moved it to the first sentence and added another.Rlevse 11:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

UK Scout Leader Training can be used to gain Open College Network credits - and this was instituted at about the same time as the Australian system by the look of it... I'll try and dig out a precise date when I'm hunting out references tomorrow... Horus Kol 21:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good. I am not sure that Australia was a world first and it certainly should not be in the article unless we can find a source. The Australia system is not just credits. It is a regular TAFE/VET national award. --Bduke 23:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Black Watch-Tartan

When a Leader in the Scouting movement in the UK completes the full training course, the ceremonial neckerchief which they are presented with features a Black Watch Tartan patch on the back. Black Watch#Anecdotes

If this is right, someone should try to point this out a bit (Wood Badge, Maclaren, Gilwell, not only UK, image etc.). If not, it should be deleted. FloK 13:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, dumb question...is the Black Watch tartan different from the Maclaren and how are they used differently in the UK? Rlevse 15:23, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I would have to say the Black Watch article is in error. The Black Watch tartan is not the same as the Maclaren tartan. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I rm'd it from the Black Watch article.Rlevse 17:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

Hello, I am reviewing the article for GA. I will collect thoughts here as I read the article. I will number my comments for easy response. Feel free to address any of them at any time either here or by editting the article. Johntex\^talk 05:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

1. The article says this is a Scouting award. Does that apply to all nations with Scouting programs?
2. The article does not seem to have a lot of wikilinks. Are there additional relevant terms that can be linked?
3. History - "But Baden-Powell wanted his training to be as practical as possible, and that meant in camp and this led to the development of Wood Badge." - I am sure by "in camp" you mean out in the countryside, but this strikes me as an odd-phrase. Can it be replaced?
4. The article does not seem to state where the first Wood Badge took place. Was it Gilwell Park?
5. Did BP come up with the name for the training?
6. Optional - it would be awesome if a photo could be added to show the entire kneckerchief so we see its entire shape. And/or a photo of someone wearing their regalia would be great.
7. Reference 3 - The origins of the Wood Badge - talks about scouts from South Africa bringing replica beads to a Jamboree. Does Scouting South Africa run a Wood Badge program and can South Africa be added to the countries described? This source could also possibly be used for additional pictures. For instance, the warrant certificate would seem to be past copyright expiration and in the public domain.
8. Inconsistent spelling - Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: honor (A) (British: honour), recognize (A) (British: recognise), recognise (B) (American: recognize), ization (A) (British: isation), isation (B) (American: ization), program (A) (British: programme).
9. I only spot-checked the references, but the ones I checked do look good.

If you can take care of the above, I will support for GA and I think the article will actually be well on the way to FA status. Johntex\^talk 05:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

responses

1-reworded

2-have looked very hard for good wikilinks, have linked all we can I feel. open to suggestions.

3-reworded

4-yes, added to article

5-yes, see origins footnote, added to article

6-like the top photo, added one of four Wood Badgers in uniform, I was at my ticket advisee's WB ceremony tonight

7-left msgs with two South African members of Scouting project

8-I think I got all these, note one ref is "isa" because it's an actual name, let me know if I missed

9-refs are good, I did them myself

more later.Rlevse 11:03, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• For wikilinks, a few that might be relevant include leadership, values| and youth. Johntex\^talk 14:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

done, youth was already linked.Rlevse 15:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• Photos: The photo here is not very good. I have about a thousand photos from our last Wood Badge course (we asked everyone with a digital camera to drop them by my scribe office and download them)- let me take a look through them for something with some action. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, personally I think the photo is a good illustration for this article. Regarding South Africa, yes, there is an active Wood Badge program and it's the standard adult qualification in Scouting. I can't add anything more interesting than that, though. Zaian 20:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I like the top photo, added image to USA section, see note 6 above.Rlevse 02:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Ed's review

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:00, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• All of the common history belongs in one history section
• One short section on the regalia- put the rest in the history
• Note that the BSA uses the phrase "Gilwell Troop 1" (already in origins section)
• Rename "Coursework" to "Curriculum" (done)
• Close up one sentence paragraphs (did one, please edit as you like)
• There are a number of words that are capitalized that probably should not be (pls provide examples)
• Kudu horn? (added in)
• Axe in log logo? I'm pretty sure this is the Gilwell logo, not the Wood Badge logo. (don't see axe and log anywhere)

No, but it is used at least in the US, so it should be noted. (added in)

• I think the standard necker is actually cotton. You get wool only by special order. (corrected)

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I sandboxed a bit at User:Gadget850/Sandbox5. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:00, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Love to help with a South African section, unfortunately I have not personally been on a Wood Badge course and so do not know much about how it's run here in South Africa. However I will ask on the South African Scout Forum [2] for any input that other Scouters there might have. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jediwannabe (talk • contribs) 07:16, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

sorry guys, didn't realise I didn't sign -- YiS, Jediwannabe 07:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

new questions

1. The section Akela Badge mentions "the Committee of the Council". This needs further explaining. What council? (took out phrase, ref says Comm of the Council but doesn't elaborate)
2. Section Significance of Additional Beads states that these are awarded to Wood Badgers "serve as part of their council's Wood Badge training team". In Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Scandinavia etc. the Wood Badge training is organized on national level - not locally/regionally. So additional beads are awarded by the national person in charge for Wood Badge training. I think this needs rewording. (fixed)
3. Section Curriculum: The bulleted paragraph uses "our" - is it a quotation? If not it should use wikisyntax (ie *). (yes, it's a quote, but the concept is generic, so I reworded it

--jergen 20:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jergen-I'll get to this when I finish Ed's stuff, I have one more big part of his comments to do. Would you like to write a section on WB in Germany? Rlevse 21:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

That's not easy: The three WOSM member organizations have differing schemes and there are - at least - two more by non-WOSM organizations. For those who understand some German I'll include links on the training schemes: BdP (Gilwellkurs), CP-BSK (non-WOSM; Ahornkurs), DPSG (sections 1.1 to 1.4), DPV/CPD (non-WOSM), VCP

• I added a few wikilinks, and support the recommendation for some more: there are plenty of difficult words that could do with wikilinking.
• How about adding the infobox military award: it doesn't give military prominence, so is quite usable. Or would we need to add a type=award to the Infobox Worldscouting? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Can you add an award param to our infobox? I'd prefer to stick with our own. I agree with Wim, we're treating this more like a FA, but that's okay, the better the article gets, the better off we all are.Rlevse 22:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• Voila. If we don't take care, this is FAC-fodder in no time ;-). Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC).
  • Very nice job on the award option on the infobox.Rlevse 22:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Yeah, right, very nice job on the picture too! You're looking mighty pleased with yourself, and that for just being the scribe ;-). Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC).
    • Scribes are essential--no job is complete until the paperwork done! FYI, I put Scouting history trivia in our daily Gilwell Gazette!Rlevse 22:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The scribe is undervalued and overworked. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Photos

Wodd Badge beads, neckerchief and woggle

BSA Wood Badge training neckerchief, hat and homemade woggle

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I've never seen that hat. Is it available BSA wide? Rlevse 20:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes- WB staff wear the hat and necker until the last meal of the classrom phase, WB participants wear it during the sessions and may wear it until they earn WB. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I've seen hats in WB courses, but not that particular design. In courses I've seen, each hat is different for each course, like each course gets its won t-shirt design.Rlevse 01:02, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

This came in last year with the new WB uniform rules. Staff and students now wear their normal unit uniform with the WB hat and neckerchief. One of the early den exercises is to make the woggle. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I knew I had seen the current photo somewhere: [3]. I'm afraid there may be a copyright issue on it. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

email the guy (link at bottom) and ask him. The current upper image has been on wiki 4 years.Rlevse 01:01, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

In which case, the website probably got it from Wikipedia, not the other way round... Zaian 08:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

---

Final round?

OK, I've put the histories into one section. This should take care of all major concerns, let me know in this subsection if there are more. Thanks for the feedback.Rlevse 00:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

• Excellent work, everyone. I am satisfied that all objections have been met and I am promoting this article to GA.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Johntex (talk • contribs)

Thanks, John, fully agree with you about the current quality of the article. With this focus on the Wood Badge article, perhaps some want to steam on to A-Class or even (ambitious!) Featured Article. Some things that I'd like to see before that include (top to bottom):

• very thorough copy-editing, removing quite some superfluous words or phrase pars (pet peeve of Tony, Sandy and others), and I see enough here.
• Combining Regalia with History, so that there's a logical list of Beads (with number of beads), Neckerchief, and membership of 1st Gilwell Scout group. The Akela Badge is out (not notable).
• Perhaps some info from the Regalia+History into a new section History, only about the first two decades of Scouting when the Wood Badge training was defined. Dinizulu is referred to merely as a flashback for the beads, and has no significant part in the history of the training.
• Curriculum: expanding necessary, notably to point out the classroom phase (what is in there, to which purpose, how is this done, generall), and the practical phase (all associations do a camping thing: explain). But more wouldn't be amiss
• Please do not overemotionalizingly hallow Gilwell Park. (and remember to remove it from the Main Page proposal too). {done}
• Minimize the differences between the nations: effectively all have very similar programmes.
• Should perhaps an explicit section on the training premises be added? Gilwell, Philmont, St Ada's and St Walrick have become notable, I think, because of the Wood Badge training?
• Are there notable trainers, apart from B-P? {Hilcourt}

Just a few thoughts for furthering the article beyond today's GA. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

wrt differences - I'm not so sure that we have similar programmes in the UK - we had a major change to the training scheme about 4 years ago, and I think it is very different to most of the rest of the world... Horus Kol 11:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

• Hi Horus, the point is not about the differences, but about presenting in this central article the similarities and the common ground of the training scheme, e.g., the target group, training goal, philosophy in the training setup, class and field phases, etc. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

eh? how can you have an article on Wood Badge that doesn't mention that different organisations have different approaches to the award and training? Horus Kol 00:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

• The essence of what I try to point out is that you first must have an article on what is similar and central to the award and training. And then you can decided to elaborate (somewhat) on the differences. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 17:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

All Gilwell Camp Chiefs, such as John Thurman were notable trainers. --Bduke 02:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Lead

Currently, the fourth paragraph of the lead says almost nothing that the first three don't. Can it be cut? –Outriggr § 04:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC) (via)

Yes- I had just noticed that as well. The second paragraph is also redundant with the Regalia section. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:31, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Related links

I think the links that NThurston has added should be deleted because it is not appropriate to add to articles material that is really part of WP user space. What do others think? --Bduke 20:05, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Bduke is correct, cats and templates are not supposed to be in the article (except of course for cats that the article itself is in with show at the bottom). However, this can go on the talk page permanently below the project, etc boxes, sort of like we have permanent guidance issues on the Scouting and List of Eagle Scouts pages.Rlevse 20:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. Is this ok? --NThurston 21:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Fine with me.Rlevse 21:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Different organisations and Wood Badge

We have gutted a lot of information about the Wood Badge and leadership training in different organisations - has this been put anywhere else so that it can be read by people interested in the fact that the UK approaches training differentlt to Australia, or the both of them to America, or any other national organisation to the rest? Horus Kol 11:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

• I have retained the serious information in the new section, and where appropriate copied generic information into the overall text. The rest wasn't 'a lot of information' but a 'lot of me too' stuff, or vague commercial woffle about how nice things are. No good information has been lost, imho. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 00:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

I think the first course pic is too wide.Rlevse 23:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

• Nah, your screen is too narrow ;-). Really, on my 1920px wide screen, this is fine. I have been trying out various widths, and making it the default 200px|right is to darn small: you can't even discern what it is about. So what about this 400px|left? PS. Should there be more historic info in that section? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 01:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

Enough improvements?

Anyone more with serious improvement proposals? I'm thinking to put it on WP:FAC. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

If you feel it's ready, go for it. Even if it doesn't make it, it'll improve.Rlevse 11:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

My only suggestion is an article on Gidney, however short, so the lead doesn't have a red link in it. Then we'll go for FA, that's the only way we'll ever know.Rlevse 01:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Verify

The following was revealed the day before the opening of the 1989 National Jamboree by William "Green-Bar Bill" Hillcourt: Francis Gidney was the camp chief for the first initial Wood Badge training sessions. With respect to the neckerchief slide, Mr. Gidney knew that most folks were not good wood carvers, so he elected to have the candidates do some knot-tying work - the Turk's-head knot was his choice.

Can this be verified? I can't find anything.Rlevse 22:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

USA Wood Badge

"Since 1948, Wood Badge training has been provided in the United States at Schiff Scout Reservation and, in the last decades, mostly at Philmont Scout Ranch."

The sentence above is inacurate as most Wood Badge courses in the US are held by local councils under the auspices of the Region. Very few US Wood Badgers (as a percentage of the whole) took their course at either Philmont or Schiff. --Jdurbach 14:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this definitely needs polishing. This should not grow beyond the section. We can consider an article on Wood Badge in the U.S. to be worked later. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:10, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Name?

Maybe it's obvious to the article's creators, but why is it called the Wood Badge? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with woodworking. Is it named for skills used "in the woods"? —dgies^t_c 17:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Because the beads were wooden, "wood", and they're given as an award for completing the training, "badge". Hence "Wood Badge".Rlevse 17:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

We should clarify this after the TFA. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

If somebody could verify, I had always heard that BP thought that there should be an award but it should not be modest... made of wood. WMT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.16.206 (talk) 02:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Neckerchief color

The article states that the Wood Badge neckerchief is dove grey. Is it different in the US than in Britain? Mine is pink on one side and faded pink on the other. -Freekee 06:51, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, we need to change this. People where I live argue whether it's mauve or taupe, but they are they same color all over the world, a sort of pink. Let's settle what we should use in the article. Looking at color samples in the articles, to me it looks like a pale taupe. I have noticed the older ones like only slightly different with a hint of gray.Rlevse 10:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like I need to take my necker to work and crack open the Pantone charts for an exact match. I don't think something this obvious is OR. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 10:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

First, taupe covers a wide range of colors and is not at all precise. The neckerchief uses a twill weave with a face (the top weave) of Pantone 162 and a back of red. Because of the two color twill, the entire neckerchief seems to be a different color than the individual colors. Here is a decent Pantone chart. The closest named colors I could find are either deep peach or sand.

Pantone 162 (Hex: #FFC2A3)

Deep Peach (Hex: #FFCBA4)

Sand (Hex: #FFCC99)

Please note that these colors may seem off if you are using an uncalibrated monitor, and there may be color variations amongst the neckerchiefs. I calibrate my monitor here periodically. It is quite possible that early neckerchiefs were a different color that has been passed on as lore. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:37, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Based on what shows on my screen, my necker looks like the deep peach.Rlevse 18:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

That is what I was leaning towards. I got the name from peach (colour). Understand that there are a lot of different names for colors, but we do have a link for this one. And it's not my fault it's fruity. BTW, it looks like the Scout Association calls it a scarf. [4] --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:45, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Found it. After Mclaren died in 1921, "In his honour the Gilwell staff wore a scarf made of Maclaren tartan. However to reduce the expense a scarf of dove grey cloth (the colour of humility) with a warm red lining (to signify warmth of feeling) was substituted with a patch of Maclaren tartan on the point of the scarf and worn by those passing the Gilwell practical course. In 1924 use of the scarf became restricted to Wood Badge holders only. Today the scarf is more the earth tone colour beige than grey but the reason and the date of this development has not been found." [5]

Woodbeads

It does appear that some NSOs use the term woodbeads, expecially those in the World Federation of Independent Scouts. [6] --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 12:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

membership in Clan Maclaren

I pulled this recent addition to the Insignia section:

A unique honor derived from the wearing of the tartan bestowed upon holders of the Wood Badge is acceptance of their application for non-voting membership in Clan Maclaren of North America, which also allows admittance to Scottish Games.

• The link is dead, found at http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=58
• This does not belong under Insignia
• It is BSA specific

I'm not sure where this goes. Perhaps we do need a BSA article. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 12:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• This link:? http://www.clanmaclarenna.org/CMSNA/home.nsf/Scouting!OpenPage ->

The Clan MacLaren Society of North America has established a special associate (non-voting) membership for any Scouter who has earned his or her Wood Badge. Wood Badge membership in the Clan MacLaren Society of North America (CMSNA) is therefore extended to all Wood Badge-trained Scouters who have completed their "ticket" and have received their Wood Badge beads.

Editorial Note: There is no affiliation between any Boy Scout or Scouting organization and the Clan MacLaren Society of North America, Ltd.

• Clan Maclaren Society, Scotland and Clan Maclaren Society, Australia don't have the same rule, so, it is not BSA specific, it is only highly North America related.

--Egel _Reaction? 13:39, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

References

TFA

This article went through TFA rather well. The only changes to survive were minor wording and one wikilink. diff

As usual, this seems to have spilled over to other articles. Neckerchief got about as many edits yesterday as it had over six months. There seemed to be some geometry issues- wording changed from right triangle to isosceles triangle, then to right isosceles triangle. I changed it to triangular and changed hypotenuse to long edge.

Thanks to all for the good work! --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

In the UK they are often referred to as "worry beads" as you get all the worry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.32.26.49 (talk) 18:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Wear of the Gilwell necker.

I have been out of Scouting for about 10 years, but I recall that the Gillwell neckerchief should only be worn when on Scouting activities away from your own group as your own group takes preference. POR may have changed since. A note of this should be made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.32.26.49 (talk) 18:53, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a TSA specific guideline. I don't think we want to get into wear by different national Scout organizations. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 19:00, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

It's the same in Italy, but it's not a "rule". It could be mentioned as a recommendation (I think there is a B.-P. quote about it, too). --Lou Crazy (talk) 02:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Details of course content

The deletion discussion on Category:Wood Badger Wikipedians has brought out that the article appears to suggest the work is only equivalent to a week in camp. I always thought there was quite a bit of self study. The UK appears to have study of several modules. This section needs some work. It also appears to be a bit US-centric. I do not recall the ticket notion when I did the Wood Badge in the UK and indeed served on training teams there. --Bduke (talk) 23:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

AFAIK, the ticket is called the project in the UK. "working your ticket" is part of the Gilwell Song too. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Back in the 1960s there was no project that I recall. The WB was three parts. Part I was study and submission of a work book. Part II was a week at Gilwell or 4 weekends at the local training centre. Part III was a period of experience with the DC or someone popping in to see how you work in practice with the troop or pack. At least that is how I recall it. It is different now. The Australian system involves a lot of study I understand, now it is a TAFE Diploma. The article underplays the effort involved and the nominator proposing deletion of the category spotted it. --Bduke (talk) 23:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Bduke, that was 40 years ago! Harhar. I've added just now a blurb about the time allowed for the ticket. In the US it's 18 months from classwork completion. I don't know what it is elsewhere. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeh, I know I'm an oldie. 18 months after completion of the other parts would be considered too long in some countries. There is an expectation that leaders complete training within 2 years of getting a warrant in some countries. I'll try to do some research on this, but not today. --Bduke (talk) 00:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

A lot of BSA material was removed from the article some time back. I had considered that a fork to a BSA specific article might be warranted. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 01:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't just BSA stuff, prior to the FAC run, Wim cut all the country-specific stuff to make it more of a universal article. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't we have country-specific sections on the contents? --Lou Crazy (talk) 02:32, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

We used to but there were taken out during the FAC process. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Dinizulu necklace

The remnants of the original necklace will be presented to the International Scouting Museum in Las Vegas on January 26. [7] ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:53, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Ax v Axe

I think this is a difference between US English for Ax and British English for Axe. So the question then is which applies to this article? "Organize" etc is US except for a an obvious British source, but since the Wood Badge started in the UK, perhaps the article should have British spelling. --Bduke (Discussion) 11:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

In Webster's Ax is preferred with Axe as the alternate. This has been an FA for almost three years, so why has no one mentioned this before? I vote for leaving the way that got it to FA. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:09, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I have no problem with that. I was just pointing out what the argument is about. My dictionary says "Axe. Also, Chiefly US, Ax". I see that the article was started by someone who lives in the US back in 2003, so I guess that is an argument for using US spelling. I am surprised the issue has not come up before. --Bduke (Discussion) 22:41, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

It is interesting this never came up before. Usually Brit v. Yank stuff comes up early, esp if it is listed at FAC, like this was 3 years ago. Such articles should be consistent, as this one currently is. Having half in BritSpeak and half in YankSpeak makes no sense at all. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:47, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Scottish Games

"In a unique honor the Woodbadge neckerchief bearing the Maclaren Clan tartan and presentation of the graduate's woodbadge course number allow the recipient to gain entry into Scottish Games as a vassel non-voting associate of the clan."

User:209.125.110.250 added this section and Rlevse asked for a reference with no response. I did some searching, but have not found anything to validate this. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 10:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Good move, this definitely needs a ref. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

See http://thecapitalscot.com/clans.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.4.61.51 (talk) 23:39, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

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