Talk:William Woods Holden/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 14:44, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Criteria

1. Well-written

Prose clear/concise/understandable Y

Spelling/Grammar Y - One issue detailed below

MOS lead Y

MOS layout Y

2. Verifiable

No OR Y

NO COPYVIO N - One instance of close paraphrasing

List of references properly formatted Y

Inline citations from reliable sources N

3. Broad in coverage

Covers main aspects Y

Stays on topic Y

4. Neutral

5. Stable Y

6. Illustrated if possible

Media relevant Y

Media tagged for copyright status Y

Comments

Early years The cited source mentions Orange County but not Eno River State Park. Citation needed for the more specific claim.

added source that gives the location. User:G._Moore talk 00:55, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

The source does not mention the financial struggles of the North Carolina Standard, citation needed.

Political career Both of the active citation needed tags need to be addressed.

"He played a central role in stabilizing the state during the early days of Reconstruction (he placed the newspaper the Standard in the hands of his son, Joseph W. Holden)" - Citation needed

"But he was defeated by Jonathan Worth in a special 1865 election for governor" - Rephrase sentence, it's not usually considered to be good form to start a sentence with but.

"The main charges against Holden were related to the rough treatment and arrests of North Carolina citizens by state militia officer Col. George W. Kirk during the enforcement of Reconstruction civil rights legislation. Holden had formed the state militia to respond to the assassination of Republican senator John W. Stephens on May 21, 1870, and the lynching of Wyatt Outlaw, an African American police officer in the town of Graham in Alamance County, as well as numerous attacks by the Ku Klux Klan.[11]" - This does not seem to be supported by the listed citation.

Later life "Holden died in 1892 and is buried at Historic Oakwood Cemetery in Raleigh. He was recognized as "one of the foremost men in intellectual power and daring that were ever born here" by North Carolinian Walter Hines Page.[citation needed]" The CN tag applies to both statements.

References What makes "rootsweb" and "ourcampaigns" reliable sources?

Added a source, Lewis, where the quotations came from. User:G._Moore talk 00:55, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Not all references are properly formatted. The States Rights and Political Parties reference should be Google Books, not google.com. The two Kirk-Holden War refs appear to be to the same URL, so they should be combined. The "Chapter 12" ref should have the website name as "rootsweb.com" not "ancestry.com".

Working on formatting the references. User:G._Moore talk 00:55, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

External links A link is in both the bibliography and in the external links. It should only be in one.

left in the Bibliography only User:G._Moore talk 00:55, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Since the COPYVIO has been in the article since 2010, I won't quick-fail this one. However, this article is not that close to the GA standard, there are a number of unreferenced places and the COPYVIO needs to be removed. There's a lot of work on this one yet, so if no substantial work is done on the article within seven days, I'll have to fail this one. Hog Farm (talk) 15:40, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your review. Will continue working on this. User:G._Moore talk 00:55, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Here's the copyvio detector results that turned positive - this shows signs of not being a mirror, but I may be wrong. [1] Hog Farm (talk) 01:22, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Also, I'm becoming less and less sure that rootsweb is an acceptable source. Ancestry.com#RootsWeb states it is a product of ancestry.com, and WP:RSP states that ancestry.com is generally unreliable. Probably best to a better source here. Best of luck, Hog Farm (talk) 03:47, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

G. Moore, are you still interested in working on the article? It's been about a week since you've worked on the article, and there's still a good bit to do before it's GA-ready. If you want to keep working on this, I'll leave the review open, but if you don't view this as something you're going to be able to work on in the near future, I'll probably just close the review, and the article can be renominated once the concerns get cleared up. I'm fine whichever way. Hog Farm (talk) 04:21, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Hog_Farm, I added the citations that I could find and formatted each of the citations. Please record what needs to be done, so the next person can carry this on. User:G._Moore User talk:G._Moore 15:30, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

There's still a valid CN tag in the article (political career section). There's close paraphrasing of [2] in the sentence "Throughout the 1840s and 1850s, Holden advocated for Southern rights to expand slavery and at times championed the right of secession, but by 1860 he had shifted his position to support the Union." in the political career section.

Also, what's "Carolana"? I noticed in a FLC (I nominated an FLC around the same time as yours and looked around) that you state that Carolana's a decent source, but a lot of the article is looking exactly the same as Carolana. Either it's a mirror or something's off here, you seem to know more about Carolana.

Hog Farm Carolana is the web site that shows the data from research on North Carolina by J.D. Lewis in his book Lewis, J. D. (2012). NC Patriots 1775–1783: Their Own Words., Volume I – NC Continental Line, 2012, ISBN 978-1-4675-4808-3; Volume II – The Provincial and State Troops(Part 1), ISBN 978-1-4675-4809-0; Volume III – The Provincial and State Troops (Part 2), ISBN 978-1-4675-4810-6

J.D. Lewis's works are cited in the following journals, bibliographies, books, historical societies, public education curricula, and South Carolina County governments. His books are also available via Google books:

• "The Battle of Moores Creek Bridge". Journal of the American Revolution. January 6, 2014.
• "Evolution of Marion's Brigade after the Fall of Charleston" (PDF). Francis Marion Symposium. 2018.
• "St. Joseph the resting place of Revolutionary soldier". News Press Now.com. November 17, 2019.
• Whitney, Frank (2015). Jean Ternant and the Age of Revolutions: A Soldier and Diplomat (1751-1833 ... ISBN 978-1-4766-6213-8.
• "National Humanities Center, America in Class, Primary Sources in the American Revolution".
• "Francis Marion Trails".
• "Annual Francis Marion Symposium". 2014.
• Smith, Claiborne T. (1979). "Alston Philip". NCPedia.
• "Lesson Plan: Overview, Into the Wild: Settling the South Carolina Backcountry". Teaching American History in the South.
• "Swamp Fox Research Hub". seeking liberty.org.
• "A Roadside Guide to Chester County, South Carolina Association of Counties" (PDF). 2019.

I am not sure whether J.D. Lewis copied his text on Holden from Wikipedia or the original author of the Wikipedia article copied the text from Lewis. It is going to take some research to figure out what the original sources are. I may have to contact Lewis. G._Moore

Refs 11 and 14 are the same address and should be combined (Honestly, since ref 11 is used as the second citation for a paragraph where it doesn't seem to address the topic well, it can be removed). I'm also not sure about Rootsweb, I would like to here a justification for the reliability of this one (I'm open to a good argument with this one). Reference 16 needs a parameter stating that it was accessed through newspapers.com. Honestly, once we get what's going on with Carolana figured it, it's not too far. G. Moore. If you want to get this done, I open to it and I can help look for the source for the CN tag. Hog Farm (talk) 15:48, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

G. Moore - Lewis' source is split into three sections, and the middle one appears to have been copied in verbatim from the 2007 version of Wikipedia. So it is a mirror after all, so that's not an issue. I can format the refs myself if you'd wish. Hog Farm (talk) 16:55, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Hog Farm, Thanks, that would be great. I thought this article is relevant to all the impeachment discussions in the news and was worth pursuing. User:G._Moore talk 17:35, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

G. Moore I got the via parameter in, and just removed the rootsweb sources, as they were not needed due to the addition of other references. I did run into a new deadlink on the presidential proclamation - one of us can try WP:WAYBACK at some point. The close paraphrasing above is an easy fix (rephrasing), and there's still the CN tag. Are you okay with my edits? Hog Farm (talk) 18:09, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Hog Farm, yes, the edits look good to me. User:G._Moore talk 18:20, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

If it's okay with you, I'm going to go ahead and request a second opinion just to look over the copyvio report, just to make sure we're not missing anything. The whole thing's really weird, and I have a feeling I'm missing something.

Here's the Earwig report for the second opinion - [3]. Hog Farm (talk) 18:22, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

I have looked over the article and made grammatical and syntax edits. All of the material is cited by references provided by Moore with the exclusion of one sentence that I have removed. I have also edited the article to remove copyright violations User:Jon698 talk 3:58, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

G._Moore Another user has gone through and made some changes to the article and removed the uncited statement. Would you be interested in reading through the changes to see if you approve? Hog Farm (talk) 04:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Failing for now with no prejudice to renomination once the final changes are made. See discussion on nominators' talk page. The main issues are an unreliable source and one instance of close paraphrasing. Hog Farm (talk) 16:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)