Talk:USS Marmora (1862)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 11:51, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

I'll take a look at this shortly. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 11:51, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Prelim

• Cavalry is a duplicated link
  • Removed the second linking
• File:NH 51798 (27260143882).jpg looks like it should be OK, but the date currently says it was taken in 2016
  • Fixed the date
• Not sure File:Yazoo River 1863 Porter.jpg currently demonstrates that the image was created by a USG employee?
  • Found a source for an equivalent image stating that the map was published in 1911, so I've updated the licensing
• Earwig reports copyvio unlikely
• No edit wars

Lede and infobox

• Lede says she was decommissioned in June rather than July
  • Fixed
• Suggest adding a "×" to the propulsion in infobox
  • Added
• Add a caption to the infobox image, e.g. location
  • Location doesn't seem to be known any further than "Western rivers", so I've added a caption noting that Marmora is the one in the foreground
• Lede does not make it that clear that Marmora was originally a civilian vessel
  • clarified
• Remove one of the two "Marmora was.." from the first line of the lede
  • Done
• 1862 is repeated in first/second line of lede
  • Removed the second one
• "on the Yazoo" in the Yazoo?
  • I think this is an American English thing
• Add a date for Chickasaw Bayou
  • Added
• "to a fleet"
  • Oops, added the missing word
• Was Marmora assigned to the Fort Hindman fleet in January 1863, or was the fleet operating against Fort Hindman in January 1863? (or both?!)
  • Should be clearer after rewording
• Replace "she" with Marmora in first line of second lede paragraph
  • Done
• "in late 1863" another repeated date
  • Rephrased
• Link military surplus
  • Linked
• Ship country is missing in infobox
  • Added

Construction and characteristics

• Link shipyard
  • Done
• Could you describe "buckets" in a way that might remove confusion with...actual buckets?
  • Rephrased - it's another name for the paddles on the wheels
• Link boilers
  • Done
• "describes as an innovation" which part of the design is the innovation?
  • Removed; source is unclear
• You describe the different speeds as if they disagree with each other when they really don't. I don't think you need to cite the sources here; it seems to just be the case that,

like most vessels, she was slower when going against the current

• • Done
• "McDonald used Marmora several times" is there any particular designation you can give Marmora for her civilian role?
  • Best I can say is that she was transporting passengers and freight (from the old newspaper article)
    • I found a further detail buried deep in Smith 2010a's footnotes. Hog Farm _Talk 04:29, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
• "purchased it" use "her", as you have elsewhere
  • Done
• You can link tinclad with wikt if you think it useful
  • I've actually found an enwiki glossary page to link to
• "December 1864" repeated date
  • Reworded
• "Marmora was one of the first purpose-built tinclads in the Union Navy" how can this be the case? She was built for civilian purposes, as the article states. If this was the first purposeful conversion of a ship to the type, then I think you've undersold the changes involved in "Marmora became a tinclad warship"
  • I've reworded and added a brief description of the changes that were generally made to convert civilian steamers into tinclads

Service history

• "Marmora left Carondelet on October 22" to go where?
  • Added
• As you probably know by now, I'm not a US military expert. Is "volunteer" actually a part of Getty's rank?
  • Apparently so - it's even used in official military records mentioning Getty
• Getty has an upper case "A" in acting, while Porter has lowercase
  • Capitalized for Porter
• Suggest sticking with either "...USS Example" or "...the USS Example", you've currently got both in use
  • Standardized with "... USS Example"
• Link picket
  • Linked
• Any possible link for Drumgould's Bluff?
  • Yes, under the spelling Drumgold's Bluff but it just redirects to a specific 1863 battle, so I'm not sure that it's useful in this situation
• Link batteries
  • Done
• Missing capital on "december"
  • Fixed
• "USS Cairo and USS Pittsburgh"
  • Done
• Link plantation
  • I've linked the more specific plantation overseer
• "fired on the vessels"
  • Corrected
• "Cairo was then struck by two torpedoes"
  • I've changed "torpedoes" to "mines". The free-floating naval mines of the American Civil War were known as torpedoes - "Damn the torpedos full speed ahead" - and are often referred to as such in the literature, but most modern readers will think of the more modern propelled torpedoes, so I think referring to them as mines is probably better
• Link gunboat
  • Done
• A little detail on the significance of Chickasaw Bluff for Marmora would be useful
  • Ugh. Tomblin I'd accessed via the Wikipedia Library, Smith devotes one sentence to the involvement of Marmora at Chickasaw Bluff, and the other sources aren't very detailed. I am in the process of interlibrary loaning a book that will hopefully help out in this section and the early 1863 Yazoo River stuff Hog Farm _Talk 02:27, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
    • None of the sources address this directly, but I've added a transition sentence here to get from the Chickasaw defeat to Arkansas Post.
• I am not aware of what the Old River and False River are, and considering they aren't linked I think some description would be good
• "which was low on coal"
  • Fixed
• "Watson Smith" don't need to repeat full name
  • Deleted first name
• Sentence beginning "Marmora, with seven other warships" is missing something
  • Reworded. I don't know what happened there
• "another minor skirmish" any information about this or the other minor skirmishes? As it is it's starting to feel a little like a calendar!
  • There's really not much to say on these. Essentially the Confederates would take pot shots at the vessels or at boat parties, and then the tinclads would shell the shoreline.
• "but on April 17 again" > "but on April 17 Marmora again"
  • Done
• Link guerillas
  • Linked
• What was Nebraska? Assuming she was civilian, but would be useful to specifically say so
  • A quartermaster's department transport. Added.
• Note the type of ship for USS Prairie Bird
  • Done
• "the Little Rock campaign was beginning" this reads a little too much like a dramatic opening, suggest rephrasing
  • Rephrased
• "in late 1863" year repetition
  • Rephrased
• What's Island No. 70?
  • Footnoted
• Romeo has not been introduced at the time of her first mention
  • Introduced and redlinked. I intend to get to write this article soon.
• Link brigade
  • Done
• "Later that day"
  • Done
• "the forces skirmished" what forces? You've only introduced the forces of Owen and Coates, who I assume aren't attacking each other
  • Clarified
• Greenwood is spelt wrong
  • Corrected
• Link howitzer
  • linked
• "under the commanded of Gibson" either "under the command of" or "commanded by", but not both!
  • Rephrased
• "fired rapidly"
  • Done
• "the piece played a major role in the fighting" you've already said it fired rapidly, this doesn't seem useful
  • Removed
• Stipulate what the Marmora sailors were doing to receive the MoH?
  • Clarified
• "and reported as of May 17" this reads as if Marmora reported where she was patrolling, is this what you meant?
  • I've reworded this (this is sourced to a squadron list of patrol assignments; Marmora wasn't doing the reporting herself)

References

• References look good. AGF with print sources.

@Hog Farm: That's my first pass complete. Will await your comments. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 21:10, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: - I've addressed almost all of these. I apparently no longer have access to Tomblin through the Wikipedia Library but can try to sort that out. I've also got a book that might help with the Chickasaw Bluff and early 1863 Yazoo River stuff coming through interlibrary loan. Hog Farm _Talk 02:29, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Hog Farm: Would you like to wait on this until you can complete those last parts? Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 15:48, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

As of right now, the access issue with Tomblin has been resolved so I can return to using it after work today. The ILL book is another one by Bearss, and all I know is that my personal copy of vol. 3 shows in the index that Marmora is mentioned multiple times in vol. 1, which I'm having to ILL. At least some of the mentions are just going to be rehashing the Cairo incident, which Bearss had a particular interest in because he was involved in archaeological work with Cairo. Since I can't guarantee that the ILL work will have anything useful, it's probably best to proceed to the next round of comments once I get the final Tomblin issues resolved. Hog Farm _Talk 18:27, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: - I've made an attempt at addressing everything except the Old River/False River thing. None of the source provide any context on what this thing is. File:Map of operations in the Chickasaw Bayou region near Vicksburg, MS.jpg shows the Old River, which based on comparing other maps, is apparently a former channel of the Mississippi. I have absolutely no clue how in the world to describe the False River - I can find no detail on this. Searching is rather difficult because there are much more prominent Old River and False Rivers across the Mississippi in Louisiana. Hog Farm _Talk 04:07, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@Hog Farm: I've made a few minor changes which are hopefully uncontroversial, and am happy with your edits. I believe the article satisfies the GA criteria as is. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 22:40, 4 December 2022 (UTC)