Talk:Tumbrel

Metaphorical

Was the use of a dung cart by the revolutionaries to carry condemned prisoners metaphorical? If so is the a source for this and can it be added to the article.

Tumbrels used to remove remains from Cimitiere-des-Innocents shortly before revolution?

While chasing down info on tumbrels, I came across this quote: "In the late 1780s a lot of these had been brought to Paris to assist with transporting human remains from the Cimetiere des Innocents (now the site of the Forum des Halles) to the catacombs (entered in Place Denfert-Rochereau). It was these carts that were used to transport condemned people from prison to the guillotine." (from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_%27tumbrils_of_the_revolution%27_in_the_first_chapter_of_A_Tale_of_Two_Cities ). I wouldn't consider this a reliable source, but it may be helpful to someone else trying to find out more for this article. The Wikipedia article on the cemetery says that the human remains were removed from the cemetery starting in 1786: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Innocents%27_Cemetery Country Wife (talk) 02:00, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

It is likely that the connection between the tumbril and the French Revolution is a not-so-modern urban myth. The image used on the Wikipedia page shows what is obviously a 4-wheeled cart. Contemporary prints of Marie Antoinette and Charlotte Corday being taken to the guillotine show them in 4 wheeled carts drawn by 2 horses. In one description 2 Charolais horses are mentioned. There are few literary references relating to the word tumbril - the main one is Dickens, on the first page of Tale of Two Cities. Dickens knew that tumbrils were a tipping manure cart (the body tipped after a catch was released)and he deliberately chose the word for its dramatic effect. In the C12th the tumbril was an instrument of punishment - local lords claimed right of gallows, stocks and tumbril. Exactly what form it took is not know but it probably gave rise to to the cucking stool. Sir Edward Coke the Elizabethan jurist discussed the tumbril and decided it was indeed a manure cart - such a discussion suggests that the earlier meaning of the word was in transition or had become archaic. The similarity of function - a tipping or tumbling - probably gave rise to the jocular application of the name of the instrument of punishment to the manure cart. Insofar as the French Revolution is concern tumbereau were used but for taking away the heads and bodies - they were not big enough or stable enough to transport several live prisoners, their guards, and perhaps coffins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.46.118.79 (talk) 14:38, 10 August 2015 (UTC)