Talk:Thomas Broun/GA1

GA Review

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Nominator: UndercoverClassicist (talk · contribs) 10:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 01:41, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

I will review this one. Comments to follow in due course. Zawed (talk) 01:41, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for taking it on. Looking forward to your comments. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:20, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Making a start on this.

Initial stuff

• Two images used in this article, both are appropriately tagged.
• Earwig copyvio tool run - a couple results of 25%+ similarity, one of which being a source for this article, but reviewing these, much of this is due to the use of job positions and titles, units, and names of works. I am not concerned.
• A couple of dupe links: lieutenant, South Auckland
  • Both fixed. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
• The list in the Selected publications section could be expanded using [1]. Many of his works are listed in the references section.
  • Good find -- added most of those there, except Descriptions of New Genera and Species of Coleoptera III, as the bibliographic data there is clearly not correct -- it should be a journal article -- and I can't find the right ones. Also found one or two extras in other sources, now added. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• Upon leaving the army in 1866,...: technically, the militia is different from the army
  • Fair point. Now "leaving military service". UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
• The third para has a lot of 'years' within a few sentences. Suggest varying this a little. E.g. "though legal troubles forced him into bankruptcy the following year"
  • Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
• In the infobox, suggest adding Auckland after Waikumete Cemetery
  • Good idea: done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
• Again in the infobox, the Militia in "New Zealand Militia" should not be capitalised - in contrast to the British Army, it is not a named military branch/formation. Waikato Militia is OK, that was a specific formation with this name
  • Fixed throughout: NZ sources vary slightly (some capitalise when it's the institution, rather than the general concept of part-time soldiering), but it isn't consistent enough to break the general principle here. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
• Finally, add (French) after Legion of Honour
  • That I don't think is necessary: there's only one award known as the Legion of Honour (not Honor) in the world, and the French one is by far the most famous by the Honor/Honour name. There isn't a NZ award by that name which could reasonably create confusion.

Biography

• Adding a couple of subheadings could help with structure
  • I've split it in half -- military service in one, entomology in the other. Not totally wedded to the headings. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
• I will have a closer look at sourcing later, but I am uncomfortable with the Bairstow ref and it doesn't strike me as the most reliable source; it seems to be the work of an amateur. You may want reconsider or at least reduce its usage. For example, I see that the mention of his father as an artist (I refer to cite 3) is covered in the NZ Herald Obit here: [2]
  • It's not the most prestigious journal, but it's a perfectly good academic work, as far as I can see -- it has an ISSN and is held by major reference libraries in NZ (e.g. the National Library of New Zealand and the Auckland Museum. Per WP:RS, a peer-reviewed academic journal should generally be considered reliable: the reliability comes from the standard of the editorial review and checking, not the professional status of the writer -- and even then, I'd push back on the idea that only people with university jobs can produce reliable research. Good find on the obituary, though: I've added that in support. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC) I think I'd misunderstood -- the above applies to Bairstow 1997, but not Bairstow 2005. Frustratingly, Bairstow is almost certainly the major expert on Broun's biography: where a better source exists, I'll go through and swap them in. As Bairstow has at least one publication in a scholarly journal, the source is admissible under WP:SPS, but agreed that we should only use it when nothing better is available. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:24, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

  I've now done this -- one or two statements still rely entirely on Bairstow 2005, but they're all fairly small points of detail and none are remotely contradicted by any other source. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:43, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

More to come. Zawed (talk) 10:25, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for these -- replies above as needed. Looking forward to the next batch. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Coming back to this now.

Early life

• ...was born in an...: suggest "...was born into an..."
  • Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:03, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
• ...to the regular army's 35th (Sussex) Regiment of Foot,...: I think you can just say British Army rather than regular army. The previous unit used Militia in its title so this should readily distinguish between the two.
  • I'd like to spell it out: to most readers who don't know the subject well, the distinction between the Army and the Militia won't be apparent. "Regular army" was a common name for it at the time, particularly when there was some admixture between the two.
• To nitpick, both the India Mutiny medal and the New Zealand War medal are campaign/service medals. The current phrasing, particular for the NZ medal, could imply they were gallantry medals (such as the Military Medal or Distinguished Conduct Medal). Consider phrasing along the lines of being "entitled" to these medals.
  • "Was awarded" is a neutral term: it's in common use for campaign medals as well as for those for gallantry. Changing to "was entitled to" wouldn't say for sure that he ever got it, and might imply that he didn't. On the NZ medal, the source is clear that he had to prove he had actually been under fire. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:04, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

• I still disagree on the "awarded" phrasing but not strongly enough to hold this up (and I concede that perhaps I am being overly pedantic!) Zawed (talk) 09:17, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

• and was invalidated out of the army in 1862.: should be "and was invalided out of the army in 1862"
  • D'oh -- yes, of course.
• Hah – just noticed you linked to the Alexandra Redoubt article, which I wrote!

Postwar career

• Link Tairua
  • Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:03, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
• He was promoted to Major in 1905, : should be "He was promoted to major in 1905,". This also suggests that he continued to serve in the militia rather than leaving it in December 1866. I wonder if what is meant is that his active war service ended in 1866?
  • Done on the capitalisation. The source are very insistent that he left/retired in 1866 -- I suspect the 1905 promotion was honorary, or that he was given the rank despite not really being a serving soldier. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:03, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
• The later years of his life are unclear:: Because it has already been established at the end of the previous paragraph that he lived at Nga Oki for a time, I suggest that you reorganise the structure of the information following this to first mention Hutchinson's views of his living arrangements since Nga Oki has already been established as his residence. In its present form, I feel it is confusing.
• his biographer Trevor Crosby writes that Broun lived at Karaka: looking at Bairstow (the website citation), it would appear that his residences at Runciman and Karaka are one and the same. If the sources can't clarify then rather than mentioning Runciman, it may be better to refer to him purchasing farmland near Drury and then at the the quoted bit that starts this bulletpoint say that he continued to live near Drury.
  • Yes, I think that resolves the whole thing (and the point above) -- if Nga Oki, Runciman and Karaka are (practically) the same place, the only bone of contention is exactly when he moved away from there (was it 1907 or 1908)? I've done a rework here which I think holds within the sources and does the best we can to sort this all out. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:03, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Impact

• No issues identified.

Sources

• These look to be appropriately used and formatted. I did have concerns about Bairstow (the web source, not the journal) but the reliance on this has been reduced, plus I hadn't appreciated that the author was the same as the journal!

That's it for me. Zawed (talk) 09:26, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@UndercoverClassicist: just checking you have seen my second lot of comments? Zawed (talk) 09:28, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

I hadn't -- thanks for the nudge. Replies in now: mostly straightforward, hopefully, but the last bit needed some thought. See what you think on that one. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:03, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

@Zawed: and back to you -- have you seen the replies? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:37, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Having reviewed the responses, I believe that the GA criteria are met. I am happy to pass this as such. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:19, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your time and your comments -- I think they have improved the article greatly. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:32, 27 August 2024 (UTC)