Talk:The Stone Roses/Archive 1

Miscellaneous comments

Excellent article - well done. It is good to see an article about a music groups which is not just trivia and lists :=)Johncmullen1960 10:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggest that in the external links there should only be one URL per site domain - as it stands there is several all pointing to the same site. If all sites were to take a similar approach then the list would become unweildly. Thoughts?

Removed non-factual comments/opinion from the external links.

is it "Stone Roses" or "The Stone Roses"?

Does the artwork on here answer your question? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000004V2/qid=1037706906/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-0924825-7928012?v=glance&s=music&n=507846 (its always THE Stone Roses on their cover art) -- User:GWO

Thought as much. Should probably move the page then.

Done. Bonalaw 09:52, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"Made of Stone" and "Elephant Stone" did not chart at the positions stated on their original release. These positions were the re-release positions. This was at the same time as "One Love" was in the charts.

added small portion re browns arrest in the guardian article it says 1998 yet further down the article it says he was imprisoned in 1997....bear with me, this is my first edit.(martinB)

"John Squire's solo career has been compared to Bob Dylan". On what basis?

That they are both incredibly overated?

Stone Roses song listing

Hi - I recently added a list of Stone Roses songs to the wiki but they were removed. Any reason why? 2 reasons - it helps provide a complete listing of all their songs. It enables people to know where to find these songs. Thanks

Hello, I've just read the article & I don't believe 'Ruby Kitching' should be referred to. The fact that someone changed 'Sally Cinnamon' to 'Ruby is Mint' makes me think this is sabotage. I've never heard of this person before, although I know The Patrol had another vocalist before Ian Brown.

"The Stone Roses were formed in Manchester during the early-1980s by tambourinist Ian Brown and vocalist Ruby Kitching. " Is this correct? There needs to be a correct first reference to John Squire, I think.Nd239 16:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

that is totally wrong

Stone Roses fan survey 2007

hi, to the person removing the link I am trying to place. I do not consider the survey to be a spam link. It will give a valuable insight into the current Stone Roses fans new and old.

I think it will be interesting to see how they fit in with the older Stone Roses fans, many of which were there at the gigs and saw their rise to power and compare and constrast the views across the boards on key issues.

So we'll be able to see finally if all the new fans and the longest fans seem to prefer the debut album, whereas those in the middle (getting into the band at the time of its release) generally prefer Second Coming. And if everyone who saw the Roses first time around really doesn't want a Roses reformation for fear of damaging the legacy while those of the younger generation (some of whom not born til after '89) would want to see it happen and experience some of the glory days for themselves.

I have already received over 100 completed surveys from fans of a very good age range.

The link will also only stay here while I am collecting surveys to get results.

Please post here if you still don't agree, please don't just delete the link again. Feel free to check out that the content is valid. http://www.john-squire.com/fansurvey2007.html

Thank you.

Thanks for dicussing it here. However, as you have described it, this link violates the external linking guidelines WP:External links. Links should be encyclopedic, provide supplemental information not found in the article, and should not be used for promotion (even non-commercially). Also, since it is your website, linking to it violates "conflict of interest" WP:COI. Please do not relink it unless other editors come to consensus that this link is appropriate for the article. Thanks. Nposs 16:17, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, the top level domain of the linked website is already linked in the article. Websites should only be linked once from any article. Nposs 16:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, well the intention of the survey is not one of promotion of any website but as independent research into the current status of the Stone Roses fans and their view, I am aware of other links to the site in the links established but I thought this link would be suitable here due to the nature of the research and the interest that it should generate once the results have been pooled as it should give a good account of which age groups want a reformation/prefer one lp over the other and just how younger and younger fans are discovering the band. So I hope that it is reconsidered but I will not replace link until that time.

Thank you.

Jack Wootten

He's mentioned in the intro. Who is he and why is he in the intro? Is this a case of vandalism?

Tommy Stardust 10:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:BeggingYou.jpg

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Fair use criteria

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To the person constantly changing the external links section (again)

Please stop removing all the current links as they are there for people using the wikipedia site and it is not for you to decide which site will be the most useful to them. the official site are valid links for anyone wishing to learn more about what the band members are up to these days and the fan sites also provide excellent info, so please dont delete them all, except for your mate's website, cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.122.79 (talk • contribs)

Firstly, more than one person appears to be removing links that they feel are unnecessary and, contrary to what you said, it is for all of us to decide what links will be most useful to readers. That's what Wikipedia is all about! Secondly, this article is for The Stone Roses so the external links section is for links to sites about the whole band. Wikipedia already has articles for Squire and Brown, so the proper place for links to their official sites is on those articles. Thirdly, I'm removing the "Don't Stop" fan site link because we don't need two links to fan sites and in my opinion the "this is the daybreak" link is the better link of the two. Finally, the discography link you inserted is the wrong link - it goes to the title page for lots of band discographies. The link I replaced it with is the direct link to The Stone Roses' discography and is therefore more appropriate.

Hopefully you can now see that there is a good reason why more than one person is reverting your changes to this section and that you know agree with the reasons for those changes. If not, let's discuss any issues here before making any further alterations to it. -- Hux 05:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

PS Please sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~) so that people know who it is who is replying. Thanks. -- Hux 05:57, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Just leave both sites up for visitors to the site to decide which is more useful to them - how about that? 88.106.126.172 16:31, 5 September 2007 (UTC)me

If you mean both fan sites, that's a bit redundant, but okay. But the links to John Squire's and Ian Brown's official sites should definitely not be on this page. They belong at John Squire and Ian Brown respectively. -- Hux 18:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Links

I don't know who it is (obviously) who keeps removing my website links from the external links pages of every page relating to The Stone Roses but if you could stop it... then that'd be coool. ta.

TheJSU 16:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

No offense, but Wikipedia is not the place to promote your website. If it's a good site that's relevant to the article then editors might leave it there. If it's not, they'll remove it. That's the way it works. Please note, however, that removing links to someone else's fan site and replacing with your own is distinctly frowned upon and will be viewed as link spam, which makes it more likely that your site will keep getting removed. As for the discography site, would you please stop changing the URL? This article should be linking directly to the discography for TSR (i.e. http://www.john-squire.com/discography/disco_tsr.html), not a title page with links to lots of discographies, only one of which is for TSR. The TSR page already has the same links to those other pages at the top anyway, so there's no reason to send readers to http://www.orelp502.co.uk. -- Hux 18:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The url that you are pointing to is only a section and is hotlinking, the other url to the website (entitled The Definitive Stone Roses Discography - http://www.orelp502.co.uk) is the front page and is the index designed for visitors to the site as it was designed by myself, it is there to give the Roses fan the best guide possible and most will visit the Stone Roses discography first, which is both accessible via the links at the top or by clicking on the main image. If I had wanted the website to be viewed any other way, I would not have splashed out on the domain name, which is intentionally the cat no of the first Roses LP release.

TheJSU - http://www.john-squire.com 08:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

That's all well and good and congrats for having a cool domain name and all, but it has nothing to do with Wikipedia. This site's responsibility is not to you and the maximization of your web site, it is to Wikipedia users, to maximize their utility. Users reading an article about TSR, who want discography information, are going to want discography information about TSR, therefore we put a link directly to that information rather than to a home page that requires a further click to get to that information. It's a simple matter of utility and it trumps your desire to have people go to the home page.

I hope you can now understand where I'm coming from on this point and why I'm changing that particular link. -- Hux 10:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, thank you for not removing my website links on this occasion, it was very fair-minded of you. I know I am not to promote my websites here, which is why I only stick to a link in the external links - as I feel my site(s) are a valid source of information for anyone wishing to learn more about the band - which is why it is frustrating when someone intentionally keeps removing the links purely because they seem to have some sort of grudge, indeed, I only changed the other fansite's links and replaced them with my own as that's exactly what I found when I checked the links yesterday and saw my link on a number of pages with the text changed from "john-squire.com" to "thisisthedaybreak.co.uk", I simply changed the text back.

Hopefully this has now ended and we can have both links remain on the existing pages.

TheJSU - http://www.john-squire.com 08:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Link spam/link war

We have a problem with the links section again, both on this page and on a whole bunch of related articles about the band, the band members and their music. From the recent changes made and the IP addresses of the editors, I'm guessing what's going on here is two people who run Stone Roses fan sites who are deleting each other's links, rearranging the order of the links so that their fan site is top of the list, and just generally being disruptive. Worse still, the discography link - the one that's arguably the most useful of them all - keeps getting outright deleted. And of course, none of these editors are using edit comments to explain their actions.

Folks, can you just stop it? We have a couple of fairly decent fan site links and a good discography link. Can we please just leave it alone? If it keeps up then we'll just have to have the page locked, which will be bad for everyone.

Thanks - Hux (talk) 10:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, it looks like another editor - John - has made the issue much more straightforward. In this edit, he removed both the fan sites as per the policy at WP:EL. I just checked that link out and it's very clear that we can't include any links to pages which utilize unauthorized copyrighted material. Both thisisthedaybreak.co.uk and thestoneroses.co.uk contain such material (i.e. many copyrighted photos and, in the case of the latter, videos of TV interviews), so we can't link to them because it opens Wikipedia up to serious legal liability. Our hands are tied on this so please stop adding those links back in. Thanks. -- Hux (talk) 20:01, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

"Both thisisthedaybreak.co.uk and thestoneroses.co.uk contain such material (i.e. many copyrighted photos and, in the case of the latter, videos of TV interviews)"

www.john-squire.com contains quite a lot of copyrighted material - dozens of mp3s and videos - so if you do insist on deleting stone roses sites from the links page, please ensure to delete all of them.

ta —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.172.92 (talk) 10:30, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

You're correct. I'll remove links to that site as well then. -- Hux (talk) 01:24, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

One possible solution... get rid of the external links section altogether. The discography link could be used in the references section as the 'Discography' section of this article is currently unreferenced, and the fan sites don't really pass WP:EL. —Jeremy (talk) 15:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. We could also move the discography section to its own article and just copy everything from the link into it. -- Hux (talk) 01:24, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Edit war over chart positions

We seem to have an issue with the discography section. People are changing the US chart position section from the Billboard Hot 100 to the Billboard modern rock chart and back again, along with the positions themselves. There's an unknown user who keeps making these changes (always without any edit comments) and then known users revert them every now and again. Instead of continuing this trend, do you think we could maybe talk about it, agree on what should be displayed and where to get the info from, and then just come to an arrangement we all agree with? For example, where are you guys getting the chart position info from? Without making that a little clearer it's really difficult to tell whether the unknown user's changes are genuine or not. -- Hux (talk) 01:17, 20 January 2008 (UTC)