Talk:The Great Mouse Detective/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

"Basil Rathbone, [...] whose last film role was as the voice of Holmes in this film." Given that Rathbone died almost 20 years before this film was made, surely his "performance" was assembled from old audio? If so, it's worth noting the fact, or removing the reference. Blufive 21:03, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I had wondered about that, but am embarrassed to admit that I never thought of comparing the release date to Rathbone's death date. I may be being unfair, but I automatically suspect that the fault lies with an uncritical reading of IMDb's Basil Rathbone filmography, which lists The Great Mouse Detective as his most recent role without specifying that it was archive material. --Paul A 07:05, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Probably true; I didn't do any fact-checking when I added a reference to the main Sherlock Holmes article. However some searching uncovered this site, a fan page for Rathbone which cites his voice in the film as being sampled from the "record" of The Red-Headed League. We should amend both this and the main Holmes article to note the posthumous nature of his performance and the possible source, with our source cited. -- Guybrush 13:08, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Er...I went and made the edit, but it just occurred to me I probably should have waited for a response here first. Sorry, I haven't been invited to a discussion like this before. Of course, feel free to revise my edit as you see fit. -- Guybrush 13:30, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Not a problem. Be bold in correcting pages! --Paul A 03:24, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

First villain to die without uncertainty?

The trivia section states that "[t]he Great Mouse Detective is the first Disney animated film to have its villain die without uncertainty (as in obviously dead, but not in a dark manner)". Maybe I'm misreading this, but I thought the villains of Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and The Black Cauldron were killed in pretty definitive ways, too. 81.233.52.27 16:56, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

About the part involving only two villains surviving for more than one film (three, counting hades), shouldn't Gaston count among those as well? I mean, unlike the other disney villains that died in one film (including Ratigan) his final fate was actually debatable by several fans of BATB. I know this, because, 1. His article actually stated that Gaston's final fate was debatable, and 2. I am also somewhat skeptible towards whether he died or not, since i am sure that he might have survived that fall in the ravine. And also, in regards to the ones you have mentioned, The evil Queen/Witch, although we haven't exactly seen her corpse, did have Vultures coming down to feast on her presumed remains, and plus we saw a boulder fall down with her. Maleficent was visually impaled (not to mention that she was also bleeding onscreen) and fell down a fiery pit. And The Horned King was sucked into the cauldron, and also collapsed into a heap as he was sucked in (then again, he never was alive anyways, considering that he was nothing more than animated bones.) all three of those, by the way, pretty dark.

we're not sure if ratigan died, but the newspaper that details the commendation that basil received from the queen also said on the side "time runs out for ratigan". 64.91.201.195 22:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Dude, Ratigan's DEAD. He was knocked off the Big Ben for crying out loud!!! The force from the fall from the height the of Big Ben would have caused him to be torn apart limb-from-limb. While falling, gravity pulls you down to earth quickly, so, he would have died on impact from a fall like that. 68.165.6.20 (talk) 17:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

"Gravity, a mere nuisance to Christian, was a terror to Pope, Pagan, and Despair. To the mouse and any smaller animal it presents practically no dangers. You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away, provided that the ground is fairly soft. A rat is killed, a man is broken, a horse splashes." -- "On Being the Right Size" by J. B. S. Haldane Given that Ratigan is depicted as a rat, perhaps he's dead, but Big Ben is only approximately 189 yards tall--tower, base, and all. So, without some math (and original research), I don't think there's a definitive answer. 4.253.113.55 (talk) 04:48, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

^If you were directing that comment towards me, I wasn't even HINTING that he survived (as a matter of fact, the ONLY Disney character that I have doubts of his dying was Gaston). Also, about Ratigan being dead. I won't deny that he's dead, but I don't think that his fall should be used as proof that he died. If I recall correctly, Not counting the likes of Wile E. Coyote or Jessie, James, and Meowth, Ariel survived a pretty huge fall into a maelstorm (By my calculations, it's height is between falling off the tallest tower into a ravine or the Big Ben, give or take), which, If we take the physics of what would happen from the force of the fall into account, Ariel's body would have been shattered by the impact. Also, hate to break it to you, but Ratigan's cape was torn to shreads by the time he dueled Basil.

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.186.225 (talk) 13:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

UNLESS he figured out some super genius means of using his cape as a hang glider or something like that. - Buddy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.76.138.251 (talk) 03:41, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

It should be noted that Basil used Ratigans cat bell before Ratigan fell, meaning if he didn't die of falling, he was most likely eaten-Wariodude64 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wariodude64 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah... I doubt it, because the cat was far out of reach (not to mention being made as an hor d'ourve to the queen's guard dogs.). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.242.91 (talk) 02:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

During his psychotic episode Ratigan tore his clothes to shreds, so the chances of him using his cape - or what was left of it - to fly would be slim-to-none. By the way. The article says that in the books that Ratigan is a mouse, but in the movie he is a rat. That kinda needs to be added. 75.157.110.77 (talk) 09:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Wait, WHAT?!

Ok, there was apparantly a sequel for this movie in the works listed on here, and it's due for 2011, but, I thought that Lassester said that there won't be any more sequels to its animated features? I mean, wouldn't that contradict that statement? I mean, if it was a theatrical sequel (I mean, he did mention that there won't be any more DTD sequels after Ariel's Beginning, but he didn't say anything about Theatrical sequels.), then, fine, but for the time being, please remove it for the time being, because we can't be certain if it is valid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.186.225 (talk) 13:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Apparentaly, from various rumors and what not, I read somewhere that there would be a 3D Animated Series based off "The Great Mouse Detective", slated for a December 2006 Release on Toon Disney. I think that got canned. --68.202.56.108 (talk) 20:26, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Racism

So... the main character is a typically English lad, and the villain was given a stereotypical Irish name. Not even Patrick – Padraig. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? This can't be a bloody coincidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.244.136.103 (talk) 22:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Recent edit warring

Okay before this gets completely out of hand, let's talk about it here. The line about the future Special Edition DVD/Diamond Collection DVD/Blu-Ray releases of this film has been removed, re-added, removed again, and re-added again one too many times. Though the wording of the said line is dubious as it sounds as though it isn't even sure that there are plans to release these versions of the film, Hellboy10 has mentioned in a previous edit that "It's mentioned in 'The Rescuers Down Under', 'The Hunchback of Notre Dame', and 'Hercules'." Hellboy10, could you please provide in-line citations for these sources? We should also reword the line to something like "It has been mentioned/announced that the film will be released in Special Edition DVD/Diamond Collection DVD/Blu-Ray format, but there have been no release dates announced as of yet" or something like that to make it sound more encyclopedic. If the line stays as it is, unsourced and written in this manner, I wouldn't be surprised if yet another editor steps in to remove it. --SilentAria ^talk 06:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

If there's no sourcing for the line, especially about something that hasn't been announced, may not be announced, or is just fan speculation, it doesn't belong. Period. That's what reliable sources and verification is all about. If Hellboy10 can't provide verifiable sources, there's no reason to add his line in, other than stubborn edit-warring without discussion on his part. TheRealFennShysa (talk) 15:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, Hellboy10 got blocked for his disruptions, so hopefully that's all settled, now. TheRealFennShysa (talk) 16:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Edit request from Qwertyuiopqazplm, 2 April 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

...Removed copy of page...

Qwertyuiopqazplm (talk) 12:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Sorry ... you need to show specifically what you want changed (i.e., first show the old passage then the new one). And the plot summary is way too short. --McDoobAU93 (talk) 12:53, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I removed the copy of the page. It included categories and tags which should not be used on a talk page and was not otherwsie useful for discussing the edit request or the article. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 13:52, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Pending changes

This article is one of a number selected for the early stage of the trial of the Wikipedia:Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Queue are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.

The following request appears on that page:

Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Pending changes" would be appreciated.

Please update the Queue page as appropriate.

Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 00:20, 17 June 2010 (UTC).

First names

I saw this movie a few weeks ago, and I didn't hear "Hiram" or "Padraic" anywhere at all. If these names were exclusive to the book (which I haven't read), please explain. Bozketa (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:45, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

They weren't mentioned in the movie, so they indeed have to be exclusive to the book. And I haven't read it either. Kkjj (talk) 03:57, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Eve Brenner

Can we start a page on Wikipedia for Eve Brenner?74.225.15.134 (talk) 15:48, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Adaptations

Can't edit the article as it's semi-protected (obviously since 2009?), so I'd like to ask here whether two different contemporary comic adaptations of the film might be notable enough to be included? There was a shorter version with less impressive art intended for the US newspaper strip market that only had 13 pages: [1], and a longer, 38-pages version drawn by Disney Italy star artist Giorgio Cavazzano for the European market: [2]. It's clear from the sample scans on the INDUCKS that the US version is not just an edited or shortened version of the European version, but a different adaptation by a different artist altogether, although both begin with the same scene of Olivia's birthday being ruined by Fidget breaking into her father's workshop. --79.193.29.168 (talk) 02:56, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 4 September 2012

You have an incorrect link.

Under Soundtrack : The listing "The World's Greatest Criminal Mind", Music by Henry Mancini, Lyrics by Larry Grossman and Ellen Fitzhugh, Performed by Vincent Price." - The link for Larry Grossman links to the Wrong Larry Grossman. It should refer to the composer not the politician.

2604:2000:FFC0:A5:2D10:52EE:2AF3:637D (talk) 21:59, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Done Thanks for pointing that out. RudolfRed (talk) 22:19, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23, February 2013

Home media releases:

• VHS: November 3, 1992 as part of The Walt Disney Classics collection
• First DVD release July 23, 2002
• Mystery in the Mist Edition DVD release April 13, 2010
• Mystery in the Mist Edition BluRay/DVD combo October 9, 2012 184.58.22.86 (talk) 20:36, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I guess I am suggestion there should be a Home Media section and have provides sources of the various releases. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 22:01, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Amazon is not a reliable source. Please see WP:RS. Camyoung54 talk 02:09, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Seems reliable on several pages. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 18:16, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Please find a source other than Amazon. Camyoung54 talk 20:20, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

You can't. Anything older then 2000 is harder to source particularly to Disney releases. Amazon.com is the only true and reliable source to the releases. Sorry but that is the truth and all did exist the only other thing that can be done is show you the physical product itself. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 11:56, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Amazon is not a "true and reliable source." For example, according to this page, there's a Region 1 DVD release of Song of the South. Trivialist (talk) 13:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I have closed this edit request per the above response. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:12, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

The World Greatest Criminal Minds

Shouldn't The World's Greatest Criminal Mind instead redirect to The_Great_Mouse_Detective#Soundtrack? So someone can be directly taken to the song if they want to read it immediately? --AshFR (talk) 01:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

This has been corrected. Kkjj (talk) 03:56, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Vincent Price is Detective and Barrie Ingham is Ratigan

Vincent Price is Detective: Hercules, Ratigan's archenemy. He is based on Professor James Moriarty from the Sherlock Holmes stories. He plots to seize control of the British monarchy. He and Ratigan are long-established archenemies. In the book series, it is revealed his given name is Padraic and that Detective is, in fact, a mouse. At the end of the film, he is knocked off Big Ben and disappears into the deep chasm below, following a fierce battle with Ratigan, similar to the Sherlock Homes story "The Final Problem".

Barrie Ingham is Ratigan: Based on the fictional sleuth Sherlock Holmes. His main goal is to get Detective behind bars and rescue Olivia Flaversham's father, while simultaneously preventing a royal assassination. There are a few differences between Ratigan in the book series and in the film version, such as mercurial moods in the latter. He also plays the violin rather well in the movie, whereas the book series stated Ratigan's violin playing was atrocious—instead, Ratigan played the flute.

Since when is Bill the Lizard voiced by Charles Fleischer?

Wait, what? Bill the Lizard is voiced by Charles Fleischer? Since when?--2602:252:D23:8CB0:FD89:5625:D14E:5B02 (talk) 00:00, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Do Ratigan's thugs cry?

Have you even seen Ratigan's thugs cry? If so, when?--2602:252:D23:8CB0:FD89:5625:D14E:5B02 (talk) 00:05, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Bartholomew cried during the scene in which Ratigan explains his long-term rivalry with Basil. The other thugs all bow in respect to Bartholomew when he is eaten by Felicia the Cat. Kkjj (talk) 03:55, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Death?

Death is not a principle theme of this film. And correct me if I'm wrong, but death is not known to occur, as no one I'm aware of at Disney said that any of the villains were necessarily killed. Classicalfan626 (talk) 02:10, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

If you'll look above, you'll see people agree that Ratigan couldn't POSSIBLY have survived the fall from Big Ben. The article claimed that Fidget survived the fall in the book, but the movie implies that he fell to his death. This is typical of the "Disney Villain Death" where the villains die. It's been happening since Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs all the way to Wreck-It Ralph. And to Classicalfan626, have you even SEEN the film, let alone recently? I watched it a few months ago and I STILL remember all the deaths in it. Kkjj (talk) 03:53, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

OK, that makes some sense. Although I still have some doubts, I won't even bother arguing on this issue anymore. Classicalfan626 (talk) 16:06, 26 January 2017 (UTC)