Talk:Tally marks/Archive 1

Archive 1

The Square Symbols

The third image in this article doesn't have a caption explaining its origin, ie: who uses these symbols as tally marks? func(talk) 15:25, 26 April 2005 (UTC)

"Tally" mark vs. "Hash" mark

I was taught (in school or somewhere) that what are here defined as "Tally marks" are called "Hash marks." The Hash marks article doesn't mention them, and this article doesn't mention the alternate name. I have nothing to cite other than "my brain." Is this yet another example of my education being so singular that I'm the ONLY person who ever was taught this? Fitfatfighter 06:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I was taught to call them "hash marks" too. Perhaps it's an Americanism. I also use the / slant for crossing them. I don't think this should be folded into the article on unary number systems, though, since tallying isn't quite the same thing. 151.199.50.117 21:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)rabidsamfan

Check out Hash, Hash mark, Hatch mark and Hash marks - some tidying up is called for here.--Niels Ø (noe) 22:02, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Chinese tally marks

Are the chinese tally marks available as unicode characters? 正丅 are available. 70.51.11.226 (talk) 05:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

No. 丅 is an entirely different character, with an entirely different meaning. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 12:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Seriously? The ancient Chinese thought THAT was the most efficient means of tallying? They couldn't POSSIBLY have determined a better way? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.117.6.73 (talk) 16:39, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

chinese tally marks - 5 step list.

the article shows the stroke order with this image:

• 

but then also lists the steps 1-5:

1: 一

2: 丅

3: 下 ? or 上 ?

4: 止 ?

5: 正

but steps 3 and 4 in the list don't match the 3^rd and 4^th steps in the image.

going to the wiktionary article for the character 正 there are 2 more images that show the stroke order.

• 

what's going on with steps 3 and 4 in the list??

≈Sensorsweep (talk) 21:08, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Unicode counting rod marks

There's also

• 𝍠 1D360 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT ONE
• 𝍡 1D361 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT TWO
• 𝍢 1D362 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT THREE
• 𝍣 1D363 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT FOUR
• 𝍤 1D364 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT FIVE
• 𝍥 1D365 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT SIX
• 𝍦 1D366 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT SEVEN
• 𝍧 1D367 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT EIGHT
• 𝍨 1D368 COUNTING ROD UNIT DIGIT NINE
• 𝍩 1D369 COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT ONE
• 𝍪 1D36A COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT TWO
• 𝍫 1D36B COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT THREE
• 𝍬 1D36C COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT FOUR
• 𝍭 1D36D COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT FIVE
• 𝍮 1D36E COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT SIX
• 𝍯 1D36F COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT SEVEN
• 𝍰 1D370 COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT EIGHT
• 𝍱 1D371 COUNTING ROD TENS DIGIT NINE

-- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 05:52, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Five-barred gate

Why is this a re-direct from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Five-barred_gate&redirect=no? Kiltpin (talk) 19:19, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

You're right; that's odd. I'm not native English speaker, but "five-barred gate" seems to have four meanings:

1. A gate of wood or metal with typically five horizontal pieces, five vertical pieces, and some diagonals for stability
2. By similarity, a tally mark for five (though it's actually FOUR verticals and a diagonal)
3. A gate used as an obstacle in horse-rigding, with five horizontal pieces
4. By extension, a difficult obstacle in any situation

Only one of these meanings is covered by the redirect, and not even particularly well as the term "five-bar gate" is only mentioned in a figure caption.--Nø (talk) 17:57, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

If nothing else is covered in Wikipedia, then this is the only valid target. If other targets exist, you can convert that page into a disambiguation page -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 11:25, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Tally marks via available characters

A sequence can be made from available unicode

1. 一
2. 丄
3. 上
4. 止
5. 正

-- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 05:42, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Someone pointed out that

• 卌 U+534C -- looks similar to the hashmark for 5
• ⦀ U+2980 -- 3
• ‖ U+2016 -- 2
• ｜ U+FF5C -- 1

-- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 16:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Unicode codepoints

There's a proposal to add tally marks to unicode ... http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2015/15328-tally-marks.pdf -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 16:16, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

and an update http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16065-tally-marks.pdf 16:52, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.129.229.106 (talk)

What

In the fifth row (used in Brazil, France, and the United States) the fifth mark crosses diagonally, forming a "five-bar gate".

And earlier in the article it was said that "most of Europe" uses this system, and France uses another one. Also stylistically: is "the fifth row" used in France, or three tally mark? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.146.64.29 (talk) 16:51, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

I think some of the variations are really more between individuals and by context (dart, rounders, counting whatever) than between countries. To me, the variants with 1st and 6th line slanted slightly, the Chinese version, and the ones with squares, are unfamiliar, but the others - IIIIIIII, IIIII III, or using the 5th line to slash, backslash or dash the first four - seem natural. (I'm Danish.)--Nø (talk) 09:20, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Number of errors in this article

IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII I 108.65.83.60 (talk) 18:29, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

LL-to-UR or UL-to-LR?

What is the proper (or even popular) method of doing the fifth tally mark in the US, "Upper-Left to Lower-Right" or "Lower-Left to Upper-Right"? An organization I work with uses these for counting every day, and we find it interesting that most people do "Lower-Left to Upper-Right," but one or two people do the other way. Anyone know the "proper" methodology of tallying? Zebov ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I would think there is no "proper" method, no norm for this. But could it be related to handedness? With the elbow as a centre, right handed people will most easily produce / (LL-to-UR), and left handed people \ (LR-to-UL). By the way, how do you cross a check?--Niels Ø 22:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I am right-handed and do both my tally crossing and check "crossing" as / (LL-to-UR)... interesting. Zebov ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I am right handed and from the UK, and we mostly just go straight across eg. horizontly.

I'm a Baby-boomer from Michigan (USA Midwest) and was taught (approximately) upper left to lower right. I actually have never noticed that people do it otherwise in the US, but now that you mention it, yup. You should note that the picture of the count in the article is most consistent with UL-LR, too. Also, I am strongly right-handed and couldn't disagree more with the claim that rh will most easily produce a / rather than a \. Writing top to bottom left to right is clearly more common (in the English speaking world) and the motion for the down-stroke UL→LR, \, is MUCH more consistent with this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.189.79.42 (talk) 22:31, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I was always taught to alternate between / and \ so that each set of ten makes an X (roman numeral) Makes it much easier to count quickly, I also tend to add a ) after every 50 (gives a roman D) and a ( at every 100 (roman C ) underline every 500 (giving a roman L) presumably you draw a V through the thousandth tally to make a M shape with the end 2 tallies Dasy2k1 (talk) 13:07, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

I mark mine from UR to LL as I make 4 marks then go back through it. The result is the same as what you are calling LL to UR, but I would never go in that direction. --Khajidha (talk) 14:51, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Unary numerals

Writing systems section states that unary numerals are written 0, 00, … and that’s all, but I think it’s more common to write them 1, 11, … or |, ||, …. The second way is consistent with that unary numeration is a genuine case of bijective numeration, not a usual positional numeration, in which case it would be logical to use zeroes. I think there are more sources using ones for unary than those using zeros, and it should be mentioned. Unfortunately, right now I don’t remember bibliography, so I don’t think my potential edit would be left in the article. --46.191.130.119 (talk) 17:31, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Resemblance

What resemblance is meant in the text under the picture "...plus the resemblance of both sets of numerals to horizontal tally marks"? Madyno (talk) 12:35, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

probably no reason to add this, but maybe some extra corroboration could have this be added?

ok so there is a dominos game my (russian) family plays called telephone, and we count up points per game with the 4th image in the Clustering section. Bumpf (talk) 23:16, 28 April 2021 (UTC)Bumpf

Unicode tally marks wrong

The box for unicode only shows squares (see below). How do we fix this?

Counting Rod Numerals[1][2] Official Unicode Consortium code chart (PDF)

0

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

A

B

C

D

E

F

U+1D36x

𝍠

𝍡

𝍢

𝍣

𝍤

𝍥

𝍦

𝍧

𝍨

𝍩

𝍪

𝍫

𝍬

𝍭

𝍮

𝍯

U+1D37x

𝍰

𝍱

𝍲

𝍳

𝍴

𝍵

𝍶

𝍷

𝍸

Notes 1.^ As of Unicode version 15.1 2.^ Grey areas indicate non-assigned code points

It's an annoying problem in your browser/computer (and mine). Take a look at these search result, say: [1] --Nø (talk) 14:29, 15 March 2022 (UTC)