Talk:Sweet Grass, Montana

Incorporated?

Do you have any reference to the effect that Sweet Grass is unincorporated? I received an OTRS ticket alleging that this was not the case. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 20:13, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Look at page 4 of this Census Bureau map, showing all incorporated places at the time of the 2000 census, and check this page (clicking Montana), and you'll see that there have been no new incorporations in Montana since the Census as far as 2007. Of course, it could have been incorporated since then, but we'd need a source for that — as it is, the GNIS proves that it's a community in Toole County, Montana, and the lack of notice on the map shows that it's not incorporated, thus making it obviously unincorporated. Nyttend (talk) 20:20, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Renewed incorporation question

As I stated to Sarcasticidealist, who originally brought up the OTRS, there's overwhelming evidence against the idea of Sweet Grass being incorporated. No entity concerned with collecting information on all municipalities lists SG, whether the Census Bureau (either the first link given in the section above, or population estimates, or the Census of Governments [select Montana and Municipalities]), the Montana Association of Counties, or the National Association of Counties. Furthermore, although the certificate indeed lists Sweet Grass, there's no reason to believe that this refers to incorporation as a municipality: if you search this website, there's no listing of Kevin, Sunburst, or Shelby [the three municipalities in the county], and searching the website reveals only 21 listings for "Town of" and 28 listings for "City of", which includes several organisations that are plainly not municipalities. What's more, the data for the few places listed often conflicts with established data. For example, Hardin, a city in Big Horn County, is listed as the Town of Hardin — not a city — that was established in 1917, although the city website says that it was established in 1906. Moreover, the Billings listing says that it was incorporated in 1911, it's plain from sources such as Britannica and Encarta that the city was incorporated in 1885. In short, while this website is obviously a reliable source for what it gives, there's no reason to believe that what it lists is necessarily municipal data. As well, the email that sent this OTRS was from a simple Internet provider: if I sent an email from my Time Warner Roadrunner email address saying that Stelvideo, Ohio was incorporated, would it be believed? Overall, please remember that there's no reason to believe that this OTRS and this Secretary of State listing are definitive in the face of so much information to the contrary. Nyttend (talk) 13:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Nyttend, please assume good faith. I did not and would not make an edit on behalf of OTRS simply because someone emailed OTRS and said they thought something was wrong with the article and they wanted it changed, I made the edit because I saw what appeared to be conclusive evidence that in fact Sweet Grass is (was) incorporated. Also, next time instead of reverting, could you just leave me a message or send me an email? I would be more than willing to review my edit and make changes if needed, there is no need to start an edit war. Tiptoety ^talk 18:53, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd just like to chime in that I've conducted my own investigation, and I now endorse Nyttend's view that there is considerable evidence on the internet that Sweet Grass is unincorporated, and none at all that it is incorporated. I was told by the person contacting OTRS that evidence of its incorporation can be found on the Montana Secretary of State's website, but that is not the case. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 13:19, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

While I do not disagree that there appears to be overwhelming evidence that in fact Sweet Grass is not incorporated, I would also like to say that the evidence supporting the fact that it is, is rather strong too. Also, the evidence can be found on the State Secretary's web site, it just requires that you pay for it (how lame) [1]. Tiptoety ^talk 18:53, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

After looking though the numerous sources, I agree with the above statements that Sweet Grass is an unincorporated community. --Acntx (talk) 14:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Having seen the the Certificate of Existence stating that it is incorporated, I am obviously biased. I am near a map library right now so I will pull the USGS map and see if it has an incorporation boundary. John Reaves 15:23, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Hate to say it, but according to the USGS map (which I'd consider a definitive source), Sweet Grass is not incorporated. See Image:Sweetgrass.JPG, the town does not have an incorporation boudary. John Reaves 15:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)