Talk:Susianna Kentikian/GA

This article looks good, and it's close to GA level. With a few minor changes, it should be ready. I did a little copyediting, and my remaining concerns are:

1. A citation should be given for her birthdate and birthname.  Done
2. In the Early life section, it might be good to add the information from reference 9 (WomenBoxing.com) about her trainer having to intervene to prevent Kentikian's deportation.  Done
3. I also noticed that her trainer's name isn't mentioned in the article, although it seems worth including. Done

   The name of her trainer is mentioned in the first paragraph of the professional career section.

   Sorry, I meant her amateur trainer, I guess. Anyhow, this has been added.

4. In the Amateur career section, "Her status as an asylum seeker also caused problems, because she was not allowed to box outside of Hamburg." is almost word-for-word from the source. It needs to be rephrased.  Done
5. The Professional career section skips rather abruptly from her first fight to her twelfth and then to the fifteenth. A little more about her early professional career would make the article more broad in coverage (one of the GA criteria).

   I have added one more sentence to bridge the gap, though I'm reluctant to include more information on these early tune-up fights. The article Mike Tyson for instance has almost no information on his first 28 fights either. None of her early fights were considered newsworthy in Germany, so almost all available information on these fights is already included through the table at the end.

6. At the beginning of the Professional career section, is there any information available about who discovered her? The sentence also seems to need a reference. Done

   I don't think there is any information available on who discovered her exactly, presumably a trainer or talent scout for Universum, but that's only speculation. This sentence is referenced through citation [7], as is the following sentence.

   If the information isn't available, then there's nothing that can be done. Thanks for the clarification about the reference. My preference is to cite them separately, but this works just as well.

7. In the first paragraph of the Professional career section, references should be given for Kentikian being coached by Magomed Schaburow and for the fight against Daniela Graf. Done

   I included a reference for her trainer, though I'm not sure another citation is needed for her fight against Graf. It is referenced, like the next sentence, through [5] at the end of the paragraph.

   Again, no problem.

8. From the second paragraph of the 'Professional career section, is there a reference available for it being her first time headlining a card? Done

   I can't find a written reference for this right now, but I do know that it was stated in the documentary, listed in the media section. So I added the documentary as a source (also, for her deportation story, which was featured there prominently)

9. The description of the fight with Alvarez contains some point of view words ("close" and "hard") and should be revised to just state the facts.  Done
10. In the sentence that begins with "Only six weeks later", "only" should be removed, and "hugely popular" is point of view. The sentence would also be better if it was split into two sentences. Done
11. In the final sentence of that paragraph, "right hand" doesn't sound correct. "Hand" should be replaced, and I think the sentence would be better if it ended with "causing the referee to step in." Done
12. In the third paragraph, "Hokmi, holding a considerable height and reach advantage, proved to be the first hard test in Kentikian's professional career, and both boxers fought a very competitive and even bout." is full of point of view statements (and "merely" in the next sentence is point of view as well).

    I revised the sentence somewhat, but mentioning a height and reach advantage is not POV, imho, also calling it at least "competitive" seems justified through the reference provided to that fight.

13. At the end of that paragraph, "Kentikian dominated Martin" doesn't sound right. "Kentikian controlled the fight", perhaps?  Done
14. In the fourth paragraph of the Professional career section, references are needed for Kentikian unifying the titles. Done

    I could include another source, but I think it is sufficiently referenced by citation [17]: " retained her WBA title and added the vacant WIBF title"?

    Okay, so the whole first half of the paragraph is covered by the source. Thanks for the clarification.

15. Also in that paragraph, "Hokmi could score points particularly during the second half of the fight" sounds awkward; I would also recommend "overpowered" instead of "severely overpowered" in the final sentence, and "hard blows" is jargon.

    I still think the sentence sounds awkward. My biggest concern is the word "could". I'm not sure I understand what the sentence is getting at.

16. In the Kentikian in the media section, "In addition to live broadcasts of her fights during so-called "ProSieben Fight Nights", she also appeared several times on the popular television show TV total, she filmed a four-round sparring session with host Stefan Raab, and participated in the competitive entertainment event World Wok Championships which she won in the four-person competition together with Sven Hannawald, Christina Surer und Markus Beyer." is too long for one sentence. It should be split up. It also needs referencing for all of the claims it makes.  Done
17. Also in the Kentikian in the media section, I would like a little more information on "Her first title defense was seen by 4.69 million television viewers—her most watched fight to date.[18] A camera crew visited her for one year prior to her first world title fight;" --who were her opponents in these fights?

    I included a brief explanation, why this fight was the most watched (Halmich-Raab undercard). I'm not sure if it's necessary to mention her opponents though; they had no influence on the ratings of this fight, or on the decision to make a documentary on Kentikian. Anyone interested in the opponents can look them up in the boxing record section right below.

18. In the References, "Die Welt" should be italicized.  Done

I know this looks like a lot, but many of these are minor tasks. I will place the article on hold for a week. As you address these points, it would be very helpful if you could cross them off like this or add a  Done check to the completed items. Best wishes, GaryColemanFan (talk) 14:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I tried to address all of your concerns above. EnemyOfTheState (talk) 03:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It's very close. It's a long list above, so my remaining concerns are:

1. From the first paragraph of the Professional career section, the phrase "facing mostly unknown opposition". The reference doesn't cover them being unknown, and the phrase could also be interpreted by readers to mean that it is unknown who she fought in those bouts. I think the sentence would work fine without this phrase. Done
2. From the third paragraph of the Professional career section, the phrase "holding a notably height and reach advantage". The point of view problem in the sentence isn't mentioning the advantage; it's including an opinion of the advantage (considerable, notable, etc.). Again, I think the sentence would work without the word "notably".

   Simply "Holding a height and reach advantage" doesn't make much sense, I'm afraid, because every opponent (except the last one) was taller than her. How about "using her height and reach advantage"?

3. From the fourth paragraph of the Professional career section, the phrase "Hokmi could score during the second half of the fight". I still think the sentence sounds awkward. My biggest concern is the word "could". I'm not sure I understand what the sentence is getting at.

   I took out the "could", "Hokmi scored during the second half of the fight" might be better?

4. From the Kentikian in the media section, one of my reasons for wanting the opponents' names mentioned was for clarification. The article must be easily understood by all readers, so it is confusing to say that her first title defense came before her first world championship fight. Information should be available in the prose to let the reader know exactly which fight each of these statements refers to. I'm still not sure who she faced in her first title defense (Frenzel? Or was the International German Flyweight title on the line against Zurita?). And what constitutes a world championship bout? WIBF? WBA?  Done
5. I also think it would be good to add her boxing titles to the awards section. The Mike Tyson article does a good job of listing awards, so it would be a good model for this.  Done

You're doing a great job on this article. Thanks for your quick responses and hard work. GaryColemanFan (talk) 14:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Again, I tried to address of your concerns. EnemyOfTheState (talk) 17:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

You've done a great job of addressing the concerns. The article was already very well-written, and the minor concerns I had have been dealt with. The article is well-written, verifiable, neutral, stable, properly illustrated, and broad in coverage according to the standards set for Good Articles. I am passing this article. Thank you for your hard work getting the article to this level.

A couple of final comments: (1) It is early in Kentikian's career, so the article will take constant upkeep to retain its GA status. I urge you to keep it on your watchlist to ensure that it remains a quality article, and (2) I am reviewing articles to reduce the backlog at GAN, particularly in the "Sports and recreation" section. If you are able, it would be greatly appreciated if you could review an article as well. Best wishes, GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)