Talk:Society of Saint Pius X/Archive 5
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February 2019
User: DizzinessOfFreedom, please read WP:UNSOURCED. You say, "The Society condemns Nazism". Just cite a statement by the Society or by any reliable source that says so. You also say that Pope Pius XI's Mit brennender Sorge "explicitly" condemned Nazism, not just implicitly by condemning some or other Nazi view. It nowhere uses the word "Nazi" o "Nazism". So it is difficult for you to indicate where the encyclical was explicit in its condemnation of Nazism. Obviously too, Pius XI did not say that "the Society condemns Nazism": the Society hadn't yet been founded, when Pius XI sent that encyclical. Bealtainemí (talk) 10:37, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
It is assumed that a Roman Catholic society should follow the principles of the Magisterium, now it is true that the Society does not follow most commands of the conciliar popes because of liberalism, but Pope Pius XI was a pope before Vatican II. it is impossible to get an statement from the Society saying "we condemn nazism" because this is naturally assumed. DizzinessOfFreedom (talk) 18:52, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
- It is not assumed that every group that claims to be Catholic follows the directives of "pre-conciliar" popes. In the case of SSPX, it is well known that it disregards that of Pius XII: "bishops who have been neither named nor confirmed by the Apostolic See but who, on the contrary, have been elected and consecrated in defiance of its express orders, enjoy no powers of teaching or of jurisdiction since jurisdiction passes to bishops only through the Roman Pontiff", and "Acts requiring the power of Holy Orders which are performed by ecclesiastics of this kind, though they are valid as long as the consecration conferred on them was valid, are yet gravely illicit, that is, criminal and sacrilegious." See Ad Apostolorum Principis. Wikipedia is not a blog. If you want to write your own ideas, find a blog to do it on. But Wikipedia is no place for original research. Anything put on it must be verifiable by citation of a reliable source. If you insist on disregarding the rules of Wikipedia, you are liable to be blocked from editing. Bealtainemí (talk) 20:42, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
- The SSPX does not disregard these directives, but claimed (I did not say: claimed rightly; but it did claim) to be justified in making an exception. It belongs to fairness to see that there's a distinction; there even is one if their claim is wrong. - As for performing acts that require the power of Holy Orders, to mention no other stuff, Pope Benedict did not demand their cessation when negotiating with them, and Pope Francis expressly granted them the faculties to do so. Let bygones be bygones. --2001:A61:260C:C01:CDA4:6F3C:1FEA:78A5 (talk) 06:24, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- I won't contradict you on that, Dizziness (if it's you); but what is needed is a statement by a reliable source (for instance, a publication of the Society itself) that it condemns Nazism (which also I don't deny). Cite such a source and on the basis of that source have Wikipedia state that the Society condemns Nazism. Bealtainemí (talk) 11:58, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- The SSPX does not disregard these directives, but claimed (I did not say: claimed rightly; but it did claim) to be justified in making an exception. It belongs to fairness to see that there's a distinction; there even is one if their claim is wrong. - As for performing acts that require the power of Holy Orders, to mention no other stuff, Pope Benedict did not demand their cessation when negotiating with them, and Pope Francis expressly granted them the faculties to do so. Let bygones be bygones. --2001:A61:260C:C01:CDA4:6F3C:1FEA:78A5 (talk) 06:24, 29 March 2019 (UTC)