Talk:SS India Arrow/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Usernameunique (talk · contribs) 21:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Lead

• The first sentence is a bit long and could be split in two.
  • Style, not sure we have to split long sentences in to very short ones.
• In general, the lead is extremely lean—it could easily be twice the length.
  • I expanded it a bit but there was not that much happening to the vessel until the very end.

Infobox

• There's a variety of information in the infobox that appears nowhere else. Socony-Vacuum Oil Company isn't mentioned anywhere else, nor is Standard-Vacuum Transportation Company. Same with the completion/commission dates, and the draft. Also with the "Identification" information, although this is more technical, so I understand if it doesn't fit as well into the article.
  • Standard Transportation Co. was a special subsidiary of Standard Oil which managed their tankers. Standard Oil then merged with Vacuum forming first transitional Standard-Vacuum Oil. This is all the same company, just going through mergers and expanding.
    • That doesn't answer the comments regarding completion/commission/draft/identification. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:21, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
      • Commission is on delivery, that's mentioned. Draft is variable depending on definition, Lloyd's doesn't even list it very often. Depth is what matters. Identification is just a government assigned code and bears no real effect on ship's history.
        • The commission date is given as 17 March 1921 in the infobox, whereas the delivery date is given as just "March 1921" (leaving out the 17) in the text. Draft is not mentioned in the text at all, nor is the completion date. I do take your point that the identification code is less worthy of being added to the text. --Usernameunique (talk) 07:35, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
• Why does it say that Socony became the owner in 1930, but not the operator for another five years?
  • See above
• Same comment mentioned below about "Mrs. Harry Dundas". What was her actual name?
  • Unknown, since we don't even know her nationality
• "Bethlehem Shipbuilding Corp. 4-cylinder quadruple-expansion steam engine" — Why is Bethlehem Shipbuilding Corp. mentioned here? Was it their engine design? It's not mentioned in the body of the article.
  • Engine oftentimes was made by the shipbuilder.
    • Again, however, it is mentioned in the infobox, but not the body of the article. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:22, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
      • Added

Design and construction

• "12,500 deadweight" — "1,200 tons deadweight"?
• "A contract for these vessels was awarded" — Passive voice
  • Not addressed. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:23, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
    • It's style and as far as I know not forbidden.
• "India Arrow was the third of these four ships" — What were the others?
  • China Arrow, Java Arrow and Dixie Arrow but since usually ships are ordered in bunches (could be as many as 20) there is no real point adding the rest here.
    • There are only four, so if they have (or could have) articles, may as well mention them and add (red) links. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:23, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
• Where is Quincy?
  • Massachusetts, and the city is linked so anyone can click on that.
• "yard number 1387" — What does this mean?
  • yard number is what each ship is identified by the shipbuilder.
• "Mrs. Harry Dundas" — Can you find her actual name?
  • Unknown since we don't know her nationality (Harry Dundas was a manager for the British India branch, so could have been British, Scottish or even Canadian)
• What is the "sponsor"?
  • linked
• "The ship was shelter-deck type" — Anything to link to?
  • not really, but in essence it means the ship had a shelter deck.
    • What about Deck (ship)#Shelter deck? --Usernameunique (talk) 04:24, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
      • done.
• "The ship was equipped with wireless of De Forest type" — "with a De Forest wireless"? Also, anything to link to?
  • Linked to Lee De Forest
• "468.3 feet (142.7 m)" — Here and elsewhere in the paragraph, there's inconsistent abbreviation ("feet" but then "m").
  • Typically we don't do that but I adjusted.
    • There's still inconsistent abbreviation with inch/cm, knots/mph, and perhaps others. I would spell out the first usage of each, then abbreviate the rest. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:25, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
• "a depth" — Is "depth" actually used as a technical term? It seems pretty ambiguous.
  • yes, as in depth of hold.
• "India Arrow was originally assessed at 8,327 GRT and 5,176 NRT" — No idea what GRT or NRT are.
  • expanded, even though we usually don't do these as they are linked.
• "Scotch boiler" — Link to Scotch marine boiler?
  • done

Operational history

• "the forward and after wheel houses" — Link wheel houses to Bridge (nautical)? Should it not be wheelhouses (no space)? And this is beyond my knowledge, but is "after" correct, or should it be "aft"?
  • I see bridge is now linked, but what about the other two comments? --Usernameunique (talk) 04:27, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
    • aft is abbreviation for after. Either one is acceptable.
• "the Orient" — Antiquated term. For that matter, Far East isn't really used anymore either.
  • left Far East, it was Ok with a different reviewer. Still used though maybe not as often.
• Where is Beaumont? Presumably Texas, as you link it below, but it should be linked the first time Beaumont is mentioned.
  • done
• "carrying full cargo" — "carrying a full cargo"?
  • done
• "one of her summer tank leaking" — This is confusing. "Tank" should be plural, but what's a summer tank?
  • done. Summer tanks were a design feature introduced in 1920s and was finally phased out in 1950s. basically it allows the ship to adjust its deadweight tonnage (and draft) between summer and winter months.
    • Is there an article that explains this and could be linked? --Usernameunique (talk) 04:28, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
      • Not on Wiki.
• What does "high and dry" mean? Anything to link to?
  • not on Wiki, but basically means away from water, tide. In this case it means the ship was ready to be worked on.
• "On 30 December 1927" — this is out of order.
  • done
• What was she used for between 1938 and 1942?
  • stayed in the same trade.
    • Any details that can be added from this period? --Usernameunique (talk) 04:29, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
      • Nothing in particular interesting other than dates of departure and arrival.

Sinking

• "The tanker was under command of captain Carl Samuel Johnson and had a crew of nine officers and twenty nine men" — Was the ship taken over by the Navy?
  • No, the ship has a crew consisting of a captain, several officers and seamen.
• What/where is Five Fathom Bank?
  • added approximate location
• "around #10 hold" — "around the #10 hold"?
  • done
• "only one emerged unscathed from the raging fire; the other went under keel of the sinking tanker and was crushed" — Was going under keel actually a result of the fire?
  • rapid sinking
• "Nine people were lifted from the water into the remaining lifeboat bringing the total number of survivors to twelve" — How did the other three get on board?
  • updated
• Any further fallout from the sinking?
  • not really

Thanks for your feedback, I will work on addressing the issues. Crook1 (talk) 14:18, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Crook1, are you still working on addressing the comments above, or should I take another look? --Usernameunique (talk) 07:09, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm done, you can check.Crook1 (talk) 14:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Crook1, I've left further comments above. Please look at them carefully, as a number of comments were missed the first time. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:32, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

I added minor corrections but most of your comments concern the style. We usually don't correct the writer's style unless there are clear grammar problems.

Crook1, sorry for the delay in responding. I've left one more comment above. Additionally, on a second look I noticed three paragraph-ending sentences that don't have citations (the first and third paragraphs in "Design and construction", and the second paragraph in "Operational history"). These should be given citations, as otherwise it's unclear what source supports them. --Usernameunique (talk) 07:46, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Crook1, just following up. --Usernameunique (talk) 02:37, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Usernameunique, added two references, but I can't add anything to the end of second paragraph as this is simply obtained from departure/arrival information. I can't possibly reference every single voyage.Crook1 (talk) 22:36, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Crook1, just one point remaining: can you find a place in the article (not just the infobox) to add the ship's draft? --Usernameunique (talk) 22:38, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Usernameunique, added draft in design part.Crook1 (talk) 17:28, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Crook1, looks good, passing now. --Usernameunique (talk) 00:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)