Talk:Rick Carey/Archive 1

My edits keep getting deleted by HomersTruth, even though they are cited. Leona Goodell (talk) 11:50, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I am following the procedure outlined regarding dispute resolution. HomersTruth has deleted my edits repeatedly, despite the fact that my edits are supported by a Sports Illustrated article which talks about Rick Carey's family. Rick's interpersonal issues were well described, though I have deleted these references. Now I am simply adding a quote from the article regarding his family, who should be recognized. If I don't get a response from HomersTruth, I will begin the dispute meditation process. Leona Goodell (talk) 16:56, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I have followed the guidance as written in the page WP:BLP with respect to keeping the page written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy, as well as the privacy of the others mentioned in the posts. In addition, as per WP:BLP, the additional edits in question change the tone of the article. In looking at other comparable pages from similar era athletes, namely Steve Lundquist, Pablo Morales, Matt Gribble, and Jon Sieben, each has a similar structure and tone to match what is contained in Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Finally, in the section of WP:BLP named "Privacy of names", in my opinion, when evaluating the statement: "Consider whether the inclusion of names of living private individuals who are not directly involved in an article's topic adds significant value", these edits do not. HomersTruth (talk) 19:09, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

We disagree on the value of acknowledging Rick's family of origin. I agree that his page currently looks like the pages of other swimmers, but is that mandatory? As far as the privacy of his family, his parents and brother are deceased. The article I cited is easily available and has far greater detail than any of the statements I've added. Countless Wikipedia subjects have much more detailed personal information. Do you strike out personal information on other celebrities? This seems biased to me. Honestly, the whole article on Rick is flawed. A cursory glance at the contemporaneous news articles reflects many details about his behavior that are grossly minimized in the Wikipedia piece. Rick Carey had incredibly supportive parents, and they should be recognized, along with an acknowledgment of his siblings. Thank you for your consideration. Leona Goodell (talk) 21:31, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

The guidance on WP:BLP is clear: "When writing about a person noteworthy only for one or two events, including every detail can lead to problems—even when the material is well sourced. When in doubt, biographies should be pared back to a version that is completely sourced, neutral, and on-topic. This is of particular importance when dealing with living individuals whose notability stems largely or entirely from being victims of another's actions. Wikipedia editors must not act, intentionally or otherwise, in a way that amounts to participating in or prolonging the victimization." The edits in question are exactly biased to attack the subject of the article, not to enhance the content, nor to meet the spirit of Wikipedia. Every edit made by me is aligned to the guidance expressed in WP:BLP. That cannot be said about Leona Goodell's edits. She admits above that her motivation is to fix what she has labelled "grossly minimized" regarding an event that happened thirty five years ago. Nothing has been minimized, the article was correct, fair, accurate and unbiased with a tone aligned to the Wikipedia standard. I will leave it to the administrators to read through what has been written by this individual. Her motives and biases are clear, and are not aligned to the objectives of Wikipedia. Every edit I make is 100% in compliance with Wikipedia policy. My actions speak for themselves. And Leona Goodell's action speak for her, and they violate WP:BLP HomersTruth (talk) 22:06, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I am not requesting at this point to comment on Rick Carey's behavior from 30 years ago. I wish to add a direct quote from an article and to mention his family of origin. See below.

"Carey is deeply loyal to his family" , parents Jack and Jean, brother Michael, sisters Leslie and Lee , parents Jack and Jean, brother Michael, sisters Leslie and Lee , parents Jack and Jean, brother Michael, sisters Leslie and Lee <ref>Neff, Craig. "Putting His Back Into His Work". Vault. Retrieved 2019-09-13.</ref

I do not see how a mention of family victimizes anyone. I do understand how comments regarding Rick's behavior, despite citation, are an issue. I am not requesting to publish those kind of comments. I wish to publish the paragraph above.

Leona Goodell (talk) 02:17, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

The guidance contained within WP:BLPNAME clearly calls out the "presumption in favor of privacy is strong in the case of family members of articles' subjects and other loosely involved, otherwise low-profile persons". The value of adding a reference to a thirty five year old news media / story is debatable and subject to interpretation by any editor of the page in question on whether it meets the established guidelines and structure of an encyclopedia page, see WP:STRUCTURE. But, when it comes to the privacy of the subject as well as the privacy of others being mentioned, some of whom are still living today, WP:BLPNAME again, is clear. Individuals living today have a reasonable expectation of privacy given that the subject of the page is only Wikipedia worthy because of events that happened thirty five years ago. HomersTruth (talk) 12:29, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I think that you're being pretty stringent in applying these guidelines, but I will accept it. Thank you for your time. Leona Goodell (talk) 13:00, 14 September 2019 (UTC)