Talk:Red Star Belgrade/Archive 2

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Red Star won UEFA Champions League

Yougoslavia was created in 1918.even though the name of the country from 1918.to 1929.was "Kingdom of Serbs,Croats and Slovenes".UEFA Champions League was created in 1955.even though the name of the competition from 1955.to 1993.was "European Cup".

No, both Internazionale and Nottingham Forest, for example, have the pages with this same trophy named "European Cup", because that's the name of the trophy the time they won it. I can't see a single reason to rename the trophy years after it was won by Red Star. Vitriden 17:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

No,if we leave name "European Cup" for the competition Red Star won in 1991,many people will think Red Star never won UEFA Champions League.

OK, this becomes very annoying. First of all, Red Star did not win UEFA Champions League, that is simply untrue. If someone doesn't know that European cup is the predecessor of the Champions League, we can explain that in the text, but don't say Red Star won Champions League (and even delete the link to the European cup 1990/91, which is something I can't explain), since it wasn't the name of the competition in 1991. I don't see what makes Red Star so different to the clubs mentioned above, since they have all won this competition before 1993, and I don't understand what bothers you about that, since this was European first-rank competition at the time. And, secondly, the rivalry with Partizan exists, and your problem with it proves it. All of the club pages mention such rivalries, and I can't see what makes Red Star an exception. I'll revert it again and I hope you won't revert it back, because the info you have placed here is false. Simple as that.

Vitriden 22:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Folowing your logic,Yugoslavia did not exist in 1924

PS Partizan supporters have inferiority complex so there is no real rivalry.

OK, sad sam ispizdeo, pa ću na srpskom. Jesi li ti, kojim slučajem živeo u zemlji koja se od 1992. do 2003. zvala SR Jugoslavija, a zatim od 2003. do 2006. Srbija i Crna Gora? Ista zemlja, raličit naziv. I svugde piše da je prvak sveta u košarci 1998. i 2002. bila Jugoslavija, jer se zemlja tako zvala, jebote!!!! Niko to nije menjao u Srbija i Crna Gora, niti će sada menjati u Srbija. Po tvojoj logici, Nikola Tesla je rođen u Hrvatskoj, a ne u Austro-Ugarskoj. Ne mogu se retroaktivno menjati imena. Ne, Jugoslavija nije postojala 1924, postojao je njen prethodnik, Kraljevina Srba, Hrvata i Slovenaca. ŠTA TU NIJE JASNO???

Što se tiče inferiornosti navijača Partizana, ovo je zaista strašno. Ja navijam za Zvezdu, ali ovakva glupost je teško objašnjiva. To su dva najveća kluba u Beogradu i Srbiji i činjenica je da rivalitet postoji. Zvezda je osvojila Kup šampiona, Partizan je igrao u finalu. To su zaista visoki dometi, pošto je sa celog Balkana samo još Steaua igrala u finalu. Dakle, to su veliki klubovi, a to što ti njima imputiraš inferiornost, samo pokazuje tvoju inferiornost. Ovo je kao navijači Seltika tvrde da ne postoji rivalitet sa Rendžersom, pošto oni nisu osvojili Kup šampiona.

Samo jedno pitanje: koliko godina imaš? Iskreno.

Pozdrav,

Vitriden 17:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Vitriden but could you please translate that to English? :) Thanks - Litany 12:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me, I thought there's nobody else reading this. Well, rough translation would be:

OK, I'm pissed of now, so I'm gonna write this in Serbian. Have you, by any chance, lived in the country named FR Yugoslavia from 1992 to 2003, and then named Serbia and Montenegro in the period 2003-2006? It's the same country with different name. And everything I have read says the name of the basketball world champion 1998 and 2002 is Yugoslavia, because it was the name of the country at the time. Nobody has changed it to Serbia and Montenegro, nor will change it to Serbia now. Following your logic, Nikola Tesla was born in Croatia, not in Austria-Hungary. You can't change the names retroactively. And no, Yugoslavia did not exist back in 1924, but its predecessor, The Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes existed. What is not to understand there?

And about inferiority of the Partuzan fans I can say only one thing - this is totally ridiculous. I am a Red Star fan, but this kind of stupidity is hard to explain. These are the two biggest clubs in Belgrade and the whole of Serbia and the fact is the rivalry exists. Red Star won European cup and Partizan played in the finals. These are really high achievements, especially because there is no other Balkan team, besides Steaua, that played in the finals of the most prominent European football cup. So, Red Star and Partizan are really big clubs and the fact you consider Partizan fans inferior shows nothing but your own inferiority. This is the same as if some Celtic fan would claim that there is no rivalry with Glasgow Rangers, since thay haven't won European cup.

And just one more question: how old are you? Please, be honest.

Sincerely yours,

Vitriden 13:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Which prestigious encyclopedia says that Yugoslavia was created in 1929?

As far as inferiority complex is concerned,yes Celtic did won UEFA Champions League but Rangers has been more times Scottish League Champions than Celtic which is not the case with Partizan.Partizan is inferior to Red Star in almost everything.

I am tired of this. If you want to change it to this ridiculous nonsense, in contradiction to common sense, basic logic and all the other pages in Wikipedia, go ahead, change it. I won't revert it anymore. Good bye, I really don't have to take this shit anymore. You are an idiot. Best of luck, Vitriden 15:01, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I understand that you are tired but somehow we could resolve this question. Best regards Litany 12:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

You are an idiot because you do not understand that "UEFA Champions League" and "European Cup" is the SAME COMPETITION.UEFA did not abolish European Cup,UEFA renamed European Cup. -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.136.139.227 (talk • contribs) 19:52, 16 July 2006.

Please don't make personal attacks on other users. Calling people "idiots" isn't helpful or acceptable behaviour, and it could get you blocked if you persist. -- ChrisO 17:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Is it zvezda or Zvezda (or doesn't it matter at all)?

The first cyrillic writing has a з instead of a З, the 'full name' on the club box also features a low-case 'z'. Also, KK Crvena Zvezda redirects to KK Crvena zvezda. However, most of other writings have Zvezda instead. What would the right selling be? Zé da Silva 22:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, it depends. In Serbian, only the first letter of the first word in the title of an institution is capitalized, but in English, all of the first letters in the titles are capitalized. So, technically, in Serbian cyrillic, it's Црвена звезда, in Serbian latin, it's Crvena zvezda, but since this is English Wikipedia, I believe the English transcription with the capital Z should be used.--Vitriden 23:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I see. Thanks for the prompt reply. Zé da Silva 23:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Nemanja Vidić

If anyone is familiar about his history with this club, please expand the Red Star section in his article if possible. // laughing man 03:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

flag section

I've removed the section since it was not very encyclopedic, but perhaps we can use the images created by User:Cinoeye in the article elsewhere (in trophies or champions section?). Please let me know what you guys think about this.

Here are the images:

File:ZastavaCZ V.gif

// laughing man 18:02, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe these images can be included in Delije, since the flags are used by fans. --Bolonium 14:52, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Crvena Zvezda

As two reliable English-language sources today have published the Champions League draw calling Red Star Crvena Zvezda in English, I believe it is time to revisit the idea of changing the name of this article. I realise that common English language names should be used for teams who, in the English speaking world, are more commonly known by their English name (such as Bayern Munich). In this case, however, it no longer appears that Red Star Belgrade is more commonly used. Certainly I for one know them as Crvena whilst I would previously have referred to them as RSB. Does the BBC and UEFA site show that a similar tipping point has been reached across the English speaking world?

For info, this issue has been discussed before on pages now archive, and no consensus was reached. I'm testing the water to see if things have changed. Please respond if you agree or disagree; with consensus or if nobody really cares much I will change it round.

[1] [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.60.159.61 (talk • contribs) 12:13, August 3, 2007 (UTC)

Personally I think it's fine the way it is now, but it is true that BBC and UEFA have been using the Serbian "Crvena zvezda" instead. The club website however call themselves "Red Star Belgrade".[3] I think it's fine to just leave the title as it is, with the Serbian in the first sentence, and start working on ways to expand the article in general. --Bolonium 19:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

My name is Dragan Dujakovic and am the the project manager of Red Star's official website. The club is known as Crvena zvezda, but we do not shy away being called Red Star or Red Star Belgrade. Calling us "Crvena" doesn't make sense and I have spent many hours on the phone with editors of Eurosport, BBC and others to rectify that. "Crvena" means "red" in Serbian and is an adjective. Coloquial name iz "Zvezda". So, please use full name "Crvena zvezda"/"Crvena Zvezda", "Zvezda" or feel free to call us Red Star Belgrade. It is the name that is recognised world-wide and people instantly know who we are, no matter where (trust me - from New Zealand to US, passing through Ireland). We have also registered the domain names www.redstarbelgrade.com, www.redstarbelgrade.net and www.redstarbelgrade.org Hopefully, this will clarify this subject once and for all. Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.167.224.90 (talk • contribs) 06:20, 28 September, 2007 (UTC)

bold international players

FYI, perhaps we should remove this in the article, it seems members of WP Football also tend to think it's not necessary. (See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#International_players_in_football_club_squads ) // laughing man 16:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Red Star Belgrade → FK Crvena Zvezda — UEFA uses FK Crvena Zvezda on it's English website. English speaking sports media, such as Sky Sports, BBC Sports, ESPNsoccernet, and The Guardian, also use Crvena Zvezda. —Tocino 02:46, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Survey 2

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Discussion 2

UEFA and FIFA prefer FK Crvena Zvezda.

The following are English speaking media who use FK Crvena Zvezda or just Crvena Zvezda... SkySports BBC ESPN Soccernet Yahoo! Eurosport The Guardian The Scotsman The Sun The Telegraph Sporting Life Goal.com Football365.com --Tocino 03:16, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Support per nom--Vitriden 10:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. I think when writing in English language, one should use English words. The best example is that in the very same wikipedia, page of our country is SERBIA, not SRBIJA. Of course, anybody is welcome to translate this page in serbian, and put it on serbian wiki. Furthermore, this page should be intended for people from all over the world who might want to find out things about Red Star - the name used when team plays abroad, the name used in any foreign media, and the name under which official web site is. Also, keep in mind that while Besiktas, Bayern or Lokomotiv are pronounced pretty much the same whether written in english or local alphabet, CRVENA ZVEZDA is unpronounceable to the most of people on planet earth, and wildly different from expected RED STAR. I think this page should welcome people from all over the world, and show them greatness of Red Star. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterNo900 (talk • contribs) 18:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vitriden (talk • contribs)

Comment I have moved the ballot from the old talk page here, something was messed up when the page was moved. Oh, yes, and MisterNo900, nobody is going to be unable to find this page just because it is named Crvena zvezda, since there is a simple redirect. And, as you can see, most media in English prefer calling it Crvena zvezda, and not Red Star.--Vitriden 19:48, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

• Call it Red Star Belgrade in English Wikipedia. Official site http://www.fc-redstar.net/ may be a clue. --Rumping 18:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.