Talk:Rebecca Primus/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Sammielh (talk · contribs) 11:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll pick up this review. Comments below. Sammielh (talk) 11:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for picking it up. I look forward to working with you to improve the article. SusunW (talk) 13:27, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Lead

• "She taught there until 1865, when she was selected as one of the first two teachers and the only Black one to go to The South" Should "the" be capitalized in south? I think this might need to be rephrased slightly to make it clear that she wasn't the only Black teacher in the Freedmen's Bureau, just the only one from Hartford (if that's correct?)

• Good catch, thanks, inserted from Hartford. I always see The South as a double capital, but am happy to make the "The" non-capitalized. SusunW (talk) 13:39, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I would link Sunday school; is there a reason it's fully capitalised?

• Linked and changed to school. SusunW (talk) 13:39, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "In 1870, as the first woman to hold a management post, she was appointed assistant to the superintendent of the Sunday school" I assume the first woman to hold a management post at the Talcott Street Congregational Church?

• That seems obvious to me, but I have added at the church to avoid the redundancy of naming it three times in the same paragraph. SusunW (talk) 13:39, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "her insights into the communities of Royal Oak and Hartford"

• I see what you mean. In my mind she was offering insight into the Black community (singular) in both places, but as her comments pointed out societal differences in how the community was treated by the places/communities (plural), communities is probably clearer. Changed. SusunW (talk) 13:39, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Early life, career

• Per MOS:DATECOMMA, there should be a comma after her year of birth

• done. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I would combine citations [9] and [10] as the sentence about Gad Asher being sold also appears to be on page 4 of the source

• done. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "by sending a slave in his place"

• done. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "was the first free Black man to settle in Hartford"

• done. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I find "Holdridge participated in the California Gold Rush" slightly odd phrasing, is there any more detail about what he was doing there?

• Like anyone else, he went for money, specifically to pay off the house. I've added a bit of detail from this version (you might need to delete .mx). Better? SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I might mention that they purchased the house at 20 Wadsworth Street in 1849 (per Beeching 1996, p. 17) as they would not have been living there in her early childhood

• Rearranged the chronology. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "The family made excursions to Boston, New York, and Philadelphia"

• done. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "she treated White people with the same measure of respect they gave to her" I'm not entirely sure what this is meant to say? Although it might go without saying, I would perhaps specify that she was treated poorly by White people (per the source); I don't see where the previous sentences are specified in the source

• That behavior could have gotten her lynched, think Emmett Till. Offending a White person was a serious offense (okay, in many places, it still is), but prior to Civil Rights legislation in 1964 it often meant death. As for specified in the source, "she [Rebecca] was sensible and proud of her capacities as a wage earner (proud of intellect and earning a living). From her family and community she inspired respect, admiration, and awe. Addie described her as a fastidious (careful and exacting) young lady. … Rebecca's conception of respectable womanhood did not prompt her to shrink from confrontation of political commitment…to improving the condition of African Americans (uplifting the race). …Rebecca bravely set a high standard (high standards) of treatment: 'These white people want all the respect shown them by the col^d people. I give them what I rec. & no more'." (Same measure of respect) It is also backed up by Griffin p 15 "…she [Rebecca] is comfortable expressing herself through her writing and writes in a number of forms (intellect)…She is highly organized…fastidious…chooses to express her ambition and her emotions through her writing". and on pp 99-100 "As such, she recognizes her responsibilities as threefold: first she must educate black children and adults alike; second, she must act as a role model for them; and third and just as important, she has to keep her family and community in Hartford informed about the process of emancipation. Although her letters clearly illustrate the class and regional biases of her uplift ideology…" I've added Griffin and reworded it slightly. Better? SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I think that's a lot clearer, thanks! Sammielh (talk) 13:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

• "Around this time, she befriended Addie Brown, who had possibly been boarding with the family since around 1859" The source seems to indicate it would have been prior to 1859, since that's when the letters began

• The source specifically says "by 1859", but admits it is unknown when they actually met. I changed it to "for a while", which is more vague. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "Primus who assisted in the education of her younger siblings, opened a private school for girls" comma after Primus

• done SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "Mehitable acknowledged that had one of them been a man" Where did she acknowledge this? In a letter, etc?

• Addie reported it in a letter to Rebecca, that Mehitable responded to a query by a friend [Henry Jones] of Rebecca's brother, who "viewed it [their relationship] with amused condescension and a hint of mistrust. So, not sure exactly how to answer this, perhaps "when questioned by friends about their relationship"? I added that. If that works, then done. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I think that works, thanks. Sammielh (talk) 13:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

• Do we know if the other teachers sent south by the Freedmen's Bureau were women? Could you expand by what you mean about the educators being segregated by race if Primus was the only Black teacher?

• We know that the first two from Hartford were Harriet Hamilton and Rebecca and that once they arrived from various places there were forty-seven Black teachers and thirty-one white ones, but their gender isn't noted. Added the numbers. SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• It might be useful to provide a bit of context about the Freedmen's Bureau and Reconstruction

• done. SusunW (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• Remove the space before Note 2

• done SusunW (talk) 16:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "Within a month, she opened the school in the local Black church" I would say Primus since the previous sentences were about Charles

• done SusunW (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• Neyer 1992 doesn't source that there were originally 36 students, it says there were 75 "immediately"

• moved it to show students were children and adults SusunW (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "funds and materials to build a separate school" Was this a new school or simply to move the existing school from the church premises? Is there any information about when she began work on this?

• Same school, just in its own building. Added the word building. Not sure I understand "began work on this", building it or collecting the money? In either case, there are no definite dates, she started teaching on 11 December 1865 and the school in the new building opened in November 1867. (None of her letters to her family in 1866 survive except 1, but it seems entirely logical that fund-raising began right away since the amounts collected were from working class people and would have logically been small donations). SusunW (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I was just curious about whether she planned to move buildings as soon as she arrived but if there's no further information, that's fine. Sammielh (talk) 13:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

• Is there any information about what happened with the Primus Institute after she left Maryland?

• discussed in the legacy section SusunW (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "It was the first time that a woman had been appointed to manage church affairs" Does this mean at that church specifically? I would also be inclined to split this sentence and start a new sentence to say when she left the post.

• I don't think there is any implication that it was for any other church, but I added "the church's" and started a new sentence as per your suggestion. SusunW (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "Primus became the primary support of the family" I'm not sure if this is the best wording

• I'm not sure why primary support is objectionable, but I've changed it to primary wage earner. SusunW (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I was just surprised by 'support' as a noun, it looks good now. Sammielh (talk) 13:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Death, the letters

• Per MOS:DATECOMMA, there should be a comma after her year of death

• done SusunW (talk) 21:19, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• I've seen here that there is more information about the Primus Institute, I'd be inclined to include something about its continued operation in the section above in addition to the information here, maybe "Lacking funds to continue the work, Primus returned to Connecticut although the school continued to operate in her absence."

• done SusunW (talk) 21:19, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• "which forced its demolition because the Maryland Historical Trust"

• done SusunW (talk) 21:19, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• There's a lot of repetition of Royal Oak in the second paragraph of the section

• deleted one of them. SusunW (talk) 21:19, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• The source does not appear to say that the increased scholarship on women and non-White people has been since 1970

• (Lived experience, I always forget this isn't, for some bizarre reason, common knowledge.) Both were born out of the late 1960s civil rights movements, i.e. Black Power/Women's Liberation. Before 1960 only 13 texts had been published in the US about women's history. 1969 walk-out and founding of the African Heritage Studies Association following that. First women's studies program was founded in 1970 at San Diego State University and these new fields spread abroad just as the Black Power and Women's Liberation movements did. Added citations. SusunW (talk) 22:30, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

• Where you discuss what Hansen said about their romantic friendship, I would have expected her book to be cited alongside Sueyoshi 2010 (it's page 183 of Hansen 1996)

• added. SusunW (talk) 22:30, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Misc.

• Photos appear to be correctly licensed
• References all appear to be appropriate and correctly formatted
• I've done spot checks and apart from where noted above, there don't appear to be any issues

You've done a really good job with this article, on a very interesting woman! I'll take a second look when you've responded to the above. Sammielh (talk) 11:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll come back to it. Have friends arriving from abroad that I need to go pick up. SusunW (talk) 16:02, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Sammielh Thank you so much for your detailed and thorough review. I truly appreciate your help in improving the article. I've tried to answer everything, but feel free to question anything. I am crazy busy, so I would appreciate you pinging if I need to look at it again. SusunW (talk) 22:32, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@SusunW: It looks great, thanks for all your work on this article! Happy to promote Sammielh (talk) 13:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)