Talk:Queercore

2006

Dear Gilliam JF:

I am assuming you must have had something to do with the development of Queercore, since you are so very confident that it's appropriate you attempt to alter the philosophy behind it, disassembling and rearranging history to your liking. Before doing so, you might consider Deke Nihilson burning the rainbow flag, a gesture that might, just might, indicate a belief in the oppressiveness of the gay and lesbian so-called community. No? If not, here are just a very few quotes from queercore zines that I wonder if you have read, or seen, or even heard of. I doubt if they will be 'reference' enough to convince you that queers involved in queercore really did feel the gay establishment to be oppressive; however others will read them and make up their own minds. On to the quotes:

From Fuh Cole:

"So, um, I get this thing in the mail wanting "Fuh Cole" to place an ad in the 1994 Pride Guide and I just don't get it. I mean did these fools read the thing? It'd be like some bonehead asking the John Brown Committee to put an ad in the American Front newsletter. DUH!!! Little assholes. Look, whyncha just stick to what you know best: STDs, impersonal sex, child molestation, poppers and porn. Fuck you. xox dave"

From Homocore:

"In the March 28, 89 issue (of The Advocate) there's a very nice mention of the "Homocore" show, three paragraphs long. It lists MDC and The Popstitutes, but not Kamala and the Karnivores, and the description of what went on totally ignores all the women, once again. ...Maybe the editors at The ADVOCATE enforce male only content. Unfortunately, this is very typical of assimilationist crap like THE ADVOCATE. There's simply no fucking excuse, none. Anything that sells, huh?"

From Bimbox:

"You are entering a gay and lesbian free zone.

Angry. Extreme. Hostile. Savage. These are just a few of the adjectives that have been used to describe BIMBOX by those who fear it. And now those merely fearful will be horror-stricken to learn that BIMBOX has reorganized it's varied passions to exclusively concentrate on the absolute destruction of lesbian and gay culture.

For years we have been seething with resentment, and we falsely assumed that things would eventually change. We waited and tried to be patient. We attempted dialogue and we considered compromise. We even offered to negotiate, but all of our numerous proposals fell on deaf ears - bars are still segregated, women are still ignored, and men are still ostracized. We have been pushed to the absolute limit, and there is now only one option left -war.

Complete war. We will not tolerate any form of gay and lesbian philosophy. We will not tolerate their obsolete thought processes. We will not tolerate their segregated bars, books, bathhouses, magazines, music or films. We will not tolerate their voluntary assimilation into heterosexual culture. We will not tolerate their warped shallow twisted concept of feminism. We will not tolerate their appeasement of Christianity and the greedy white male corporate power structure. Furthermore, if we see lesbians or gays being assaulted on the street, we will not intervene - we will join in.

Effective immediately, BIMBOX is at war against lesbians and gays."

-- unsigned comment left by 70.51.148.182

• Good references. How about registering and leaving a signature? Also, it's a good idea to leave comments when you do edits. Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia! --Larrybob 16:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for the education. I must admit I knew little about the queercore movement. However, I removed the rant because it says nothing of the sort in the de:Queercore German article. I was not trying to revise history, as you suggest, but prevent belligerency and threats from unnecessary inclusion in the 'pedia. - GilliamJF 16:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, both of you, for your responses. Larrybob, I appreciate your compliment and suggestions, particularly as they come from the editor of Holy Titclamps. Gilliam JF, I appreciate your explanation. As the usage of the word 'queer' has been so thoroughly co-opted by the gay and lesbian establishment, confusion has resulted in regards to the nature of Queercore. If you would be interested, might I urge you to consider editing the German Queercore article to better reflect a more accurate portrayal? As you can imagine, gay and lesbian orthodoxy are not eager to encourage this movement so it's only through the efforts of those such as yourself that this knowledge can reach others. 70.51.148.182 2 August 2006

Would the inclusion of the '77 British band the Raped be appropriate here? I don't think any Queercore bands in the U.S. cite them as an influence but they were certainly one of the first to say "F off" to mainstream G and L culture in the UK. "Alone in the Endzone" 19:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• I'm not familiar with the band 'The Raped' myself. You should start a page about them. By the way, have you heard of the UK band Tongue Man? Apparently they were widely reviewed in UK music papers in the early nineties before the lead singer died. - Intheshadows 06:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Zine Wiki

Since one of the primary productions of Queercore has been zines, it wouldn't be too off-topic to inform readers that the article about ZineWiki has been nominated for deletion. Zine Wiki is a project devoted to the documentation of zines, zine editors and zine culture; and many queer zines, such as J.D.s, Homocore, Holy Titclamps, Chainsaw, Outpunk, Fuh Cole, This Is The Salivation Army, Fanorama, Shrimp and many others are documented at Zine Wiki, which is one good reason to vote to Keep this article. If you'd like to vote, go to: [1] and add your opinion. Thanks! Intheshadows 09:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Sources to investigate

• Adam Block's columns in the Advocate from the late 80s and early 90s document a lot of the early queercore movement -- he wrote about zines such as JDs, bands like Tribe 8, etc. These articles are indexed in EBSCO and The Advocate is available on microfilm.--Larrybob 00:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Note that Adam's articles have been scanned as PDFs--Larrybob (talk) 19:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

• Apparently there was an article on queercore in NME circa 4 February, 1995 which included quotes from Liz Naylor and Sister George. --Larrybob (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• This one can be found through an EBSCO search in full text:

Queercore punk rock ready to face market. By: Atwood, Brett, Billboard, 00062510, 5/6/95, Vol. 107, Issue 18 --Larrybob (talk) 01:11, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

• Huston, Johnny Ray, Village Voice; 7/02/96, Vol. 41 Issue 27, p57, 2p : Describes the outcome of the Dirty Bird '96 Queercore Festival from June 20-23, 1996 in the San Francisco Bay Area, California. Performances; Organizers; Outcome of a dance party among gays and lesbians.

List of queercore bands

Note that the article List of queercore bands was deleted in an AfD. I have saved the contents in my user space: User:Larrybob/List_of_queercore_bands. Some information from that article may be useful in the future.

Re-Write?

Does this article need to be re-written? It seems to have a lot of issues. --Grrrlriot (talk) 23:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Issues?

I'm all for a clearer article--as it is, the article just mentions queercore rebels against LGBT culture, but doesn't give any details about the main issues, so I felt like I was left in the dark somewhat. The ranty comment at the top of the talk page explains some of the issues, but they should be mentioned in the main article as well. Right now, it doesn't explicitly state what the point of the protest/rebellion is (and what queercore folks see as "established LGBT culture" and how/why/which things in it are perceived as oppressive). You'd think a movement of this sort would want to make clear what it's all about, so it won't look... aimless and rebellion for rebellion's sake, etc, which is what the article makes it look like right now. I came here wanting to read about a movement and its motivations, but those were never clarified, so I was left scratching my head--lots of anger and aggression, but no good explanations as to *why*. And I'm not exactly ignorant when it comes to queer and punk culture, so I wonder what the heck total n00bs would think of the article... Snowgrouse (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Brazilian e-zine Queercore ?

Article includes "zines began appearing from around the world; ... and Brazilian e-zine Queercore, these last two still on-going,". That "Queercore" text links to geocities, but trying the link results in "Sorry, the page you requested was not found." Anyone know where that Brazilian ezine has move to? --EarthFurst (talk) 23:58, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Split?

Though I admit I have no prior knowledge of this topic, I have to say the mixing of the music and social movement into one article is very confusing. Maybe it should be spilt? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.102.60.212 (talk) 14:22, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Androphilia by Jack Malebranche

I think perhaps it would be a good idea to mention the book "Androphilia" by Jack Malebranche (Jack Donovan), as it has introduced me and MANY people I know to the queer alternative. I'll leave it to you guys; I wouldn't know where/how to slip it in. Thanks, CalebWilson (talk) 03:40, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Jack Malebranche (nee: Jack Donovan) never mentions queerore, queer-punk or any other 80s and 90s alternative gay culture in his book Androphilia. When I read it this seemed to be a glaring omission on his part. He seemed to be playing himself off as the only person to ever challenge mainstream gay discourse. Which of course, in regards to queercore, is wrong.

Even so, Malebranche/Donovnan would be opposed to a lot of what queercore was about, mainly feminism and the acceptance of non-normative gender identities. Indeed, he says in Androphilia that 'androphiles' aren't concerned with things like feminism. Although he does not say so straight out in his book, Malebranche is writing from a far right wing perspective. Indeed, when I met with him in 2007 he told me he was a "social Darwinist". Recently he has come out as a 'paleo-conservative' and writes for an anti feminist magazine.

Jack Malebranche / Donovan never had anything to do with queercore, and the value system he espouses in Androphilia would be in conflict with the anarchist, punk and feminist views espoused by most of the queer zines and bands that were and are still active. Therefore, I would argue against his inclusion in this article. Wagnerian (talk) 07:18, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Queer Music Heritage show

JD Doyle of Queer Music Heritage recently produced an 8-hour special on queercore which includes interviews with Jon Ginoli and G.B. Jones (of JDs zine and the band Fifth Column.) On his site he also includes a script for the show, which has quite a bit of information which could potentially serve as reference material for the article. I added a reference to it for the JDs Top Ten tape already. The main page for the show is at http://www.queermusicheritage.us/jul2009.html and the script/transcript is at http://www.queermusicheritage.us/jul2009s.html --Larrybob (talk) 16:41, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Wrong template

The template in the right with the influences, instruments and all that is picked up 'straight' from the punk rock page. 83.148.246.254 (talk) 14:06, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

• I agree, the infobox needs work.--Larrybob (talk) 07:35, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Additional sources

This Advocate article from 1994 is quite good for sources: http://books.google.com/books?id=KmMEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA91#v=onepage&q=&f=false --Larrybob (talk) 07:35, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Does this even exist?

I don't think that even exist because just one band plays punk rock with gay lyrics. If this is a real genre, there should be at least 10 bands that play pure queercore, and like 30 other that combine it to other styles of music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ETFFAN123 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

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Wiki Education assignment: History of Sexuality

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