Talk:Permanent Member of the Secretariat

Proposed renaming

Per discussions with @TheUzbek, I propose redirect the article to Permanent Member of the Secretariat (Communist Party of Vietnam) or even Permanent Member of the Secretariat (Vietnam) given this is the most common term referred to in English sources. However, I am also fine with the current title. Consultant Wiki (talk) 22:13, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

@Consultant Wiki: "Permanent Member of the Secretariat" should suffice since, as far as I know, there are no other political offices with such a name. In other words, no reason to include (Vietnam) or (Communist Party of Vietnam) in the title. --TheUzbek (talk) 05:49, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Tone and globalization

To be elected to the Central Committee, one must show absolute loyalty to the Party’s interests, the nation and the people.

Moreover, they must be patriotic, always put the interests of the Party, nation and the people above their personal interests, and be willing to sacrifice themself for the Party’s revolutionary cause, national independence and the people’s happiness.

A Permanent Member must have an in-depth knowledge of the general situation, the fields, localities, agencies and units assigned to manage and take charge of them. As well as identifying contradictions, challenges, new problems, complex problems, limitations, and weaknesses in practice, the officeholder must also proactively propose feasible and effective tasks and solutions. An ideal candidate should be dynamic, creative, hardworking, industrious, daring to think, act, assume responsibility, do things decisively, and be open to experiencing difficulties.

It's as if I'm reading the sources themselves. Not to mention, they are all primary sources. This is by no mean an encyclopedic tone, nor is it globalized. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 10:54, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

@NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh: As far as I know none of them are primary sources - unless you mean every Vietnamese source is a primary source. The text states that these are the standards as formulated in the "Regulation No. 214-QD/TW". If you wish to clarify that please do, but the regulations themselves have those standards, and that should be reported. I agree with you that a lot of it is vague mumbo-jumbo, but those are the regulations. --TheUzbek (talk) 11:45, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

A regulation published by the government themselves is a primary source. Reporting so-called "standards" should be made as neutral and concise as possible; currently, the article is just a word-for-word translation. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 13:46, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

@NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh: Not word for word, but close. Its not necessarily a problem either: the President of the United States article directly cites the constitution while the Government of Croatia and the Parliament of Croatia (both GAs) directly cites the constitution/government/parliament websites. I don't see the problem. The only difference I see with the Government of Croatia article it that article uses Liberal terms and this has a lot of Marxist-Leninist vocabulary. --TheUzbek (talk) 15:49, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Citing a primary source is not a problem. Translating it word-for-word is. The article should reflect multiple aspects with due weight and not just a bunch of adjectives used by the goverment themselves. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 07:45, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

@NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh: You accuse me of translating it word for word, but that's not true. That is all I have to say about that. But if you can do it better please do! :) --TheUzbek (talk) 12:03, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

If it were up to me, I would delete all of those, but you wouldn't let me do that or even add some templates, would you? Considering that we have no consensus on what to do, I'd prefer other users to step in. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 16:14, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

@NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh: You're honestly stating that you don't what to mention the specific regulations that regulate who can be appointed Permanent Member? That seems very strange to me; its like writing an article about the UK's Prime Minister and being against mentioning laws that regulate who can stand for office. --TheUzbek (talk) 17:00, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

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