Talk:Pecsaetan

Potential online sources

• One source we can use for this article: [1], a summary of archaeological research and evidence in the peak district --VinceBowdren 12:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
• Another one is the 1911 Encyclopaedia Brittanica. --VinceBowdren 12:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Change Title ?

(The original author of this article doesn't seem to have been on-air since mid-2006). Though the 1911 Britannica refers to the Pecsaetan, probably the more widely accepted terminology seems to be Pecsætna, as referred to in the 7th century Tribal Hidage [2]. Should a change of title be considered?Wikityke 17:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I've edited the existing text a little, making reference to the nomenclature variations. I also removed the "unreferenced" label, included a "UK-History" stub, and listed some references to encourage further work on the article.Wikityke 19:54, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Etymology

Has it been established that there is anything other than a co-incidental connection between the Anglo-Saxon names Péacland, Péacsǽtan, etc. and the modern word "peak" (meaning a pointed mountaintop)? I can't find any instance of a word péac with this meaning in Old English. -- Picapica 22:38, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the article makes this claim does it? The area is not described as the Peak District because of any famous peaks (analogous to the Lake District); 'The Peak' is simply the name of the area (as in names like 'High Peak', 'White Peak'). --VinceBowdren 17:08, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't think it does either. But I do think it is worth pointing out in the article that Péac, and the "Peak" of "Peak District", are unconnected to the common noun "peak" -- and I just wanted to be quite sure of that before doing so. (Sometimes the common etymology of two "obviously different words" can come up and bite you!) Thanks. -- Picapica 09:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Is there actually any evidence that the Pecsaetna lived in what we now know as the Peak District at all? The whole notion seems to rely on the similarity of names, but the evidence that the area was 'Peak-land' is based on the fact that the Pecsaetna lived here, while the evidence that the Pecsaenta lived here is derived from knowing that the area is Peak-land. Furthermore, 'Pecsaetna' is cited as evidence that the word 'peak' (or a cognate) existed in Anglo-Saxon... otherwise the earliest evidence seems to be 'pecian' which might mean 'pricking' or 'marking' as it's glossed for 'stigmata' in the C8th aparently (thus, perhaps even related to latin 'pict-' meaning 'painted, marked, tatooed'). But is seems a long way from 'stigmata' to 'pricked' to 'hypothetical word for pointy thing' to 'mountain'.

I've seen it suggested (Morris 1974) that Pecsaetna is an error for Pencsaetna - 'people of Penk/Pennoc(rucium)' near Litchfield.

Markaeologist (talk) 12:58, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Very little is certain in either early medieval history or place name studies, but there is for example a mention in a tenth century charter that Ballidon lay in the "pago Pecset" or district of the Pecsaetan [3] JimmyGuano (talk) 10:08, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Interesting. That reminds me to check the Tribal Hidage of course, though without locating the *Pec- it's of limited utility. But certainly, Ballidon is a long way from Lichfield. Markaeologist (talk) 16:44, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Out of Date?

I added the Out of Date template, because an awful lot more must be known now about AS settlement patterns and post-Roman populations than was the case in 1911, which seems to be when the sources were collected which form the basis of the article. Paul S (talk) 16:22, 13 October 2012 (UTC)