Talk:Palestinian right to resist

Updating of death toll in Gaza war needed on regular basis now. Current numbers are from several months ago.

Current crisis section

Nothing in this section actually describes the right to resist, in the Wikipedia paragraph or in the sources cited. The numbers of those killed are also much worse by now, and are probably better documented at Casualties of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war. Pharos (talk) 18:21, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

There is a difference between a population that became occupied by a foreign power because that foreign power wanted to increase its land holdings or natural resources. An example of this type of occupation is the Arab conquests of 5,000 miles of land from Morocco to India all these lands were Christian Jewish Zoroastrian Buddhist and Hindu

and were stolen by murderous wars to enlarge the caliphate.

The other type of occupation is when a foreign country wants to live in peace with its neighbors

but is attacked by these neighbors .The foreign country is put into a situation where it is forced to seize the lands from which the attacks against it were launched in order protect the lives of its citizens. This occupation is laudable because the foreign country only holds on

to land to preserve life . The foreign country is willing to return the “occupied”land as soon as it is sure that no new attacks will be launched against it.

The Israeli “occupation” is an example of the laudable type because Israel was not seeking to enlarge its land or natural resources and would vacate these lands,as it did the Sinai,if it was sure it would not be attacked again from these territories. 2603:7000:2303:D32F:5062:3DAA:3AC7:A2EF (talk) 12:50, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

That is false. Zionism, according to the first Zionist Congress seeks to obtain all lands in Palestine (from the river to the sea) as a ethno-religious state in accordance with Biblical claims of “historic” Israel. Specifically, Numbers 34: 1-12 and/or Ezekiel 47, 13-20. So, clearly Israel, as guided in its founding ideology IS pursuing the kind of occupation you describe as simply “increasing its lands”. 69.61.242.201 (talk) 02:48, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Israel-Hamas war section

As mentioned above it is true that the final section is not really on topic currently, but I think it can be made to be so. There are reliable sources discussing the 7th October attack and hostage-taking in the context of Palestinian resistance, and the issues thereof. This can include the reactions from countries , organisations, etc; condemnations, justifications, etc. Much can be found in the main 7th October attack article. In addition to that, the resistance to the Israeli ground campaign and war in general so far can be covered. To make such a section neutral will require calm collaboration and a range of sources. Heavy Grasshopper (talk) 10:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Do Israeli settlers, who are armed to the teeth, and live on occupied land also count as civilians?!

'Settlers armed with long rifles, guns, knives and machetes came': West Bank Palestinian family driven from their home. Mapping Israeli occupation LawrenceOfPersia (talk) 18:22, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

@LawrenceOfPersia Armed "Settlers" committing war crimes are clearly not just civilians, You're correct. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 11:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Change of name

@Ainty Painty: can I change the name of this to Palestinian right to armed resistance in international law? I think this proposed name would be more specific. I can move the article WP:BOLD-ly since it is still a stub.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:38, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

To explain more, I've written an article on "Palestinian right to armed resistance in international law". I'm wondering whether to copy and paste into here, or start a new article.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:42, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Given no objections and this article is still a stub, I'll go ahead and move it.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:41, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I oppose the move and support moving it back. The Palestinian right to resist debates include both armed and non-armed resistance. It's worth noting that Israel doesn't believe that Palestinians are even entitled to non-violent resistance (eg. shooting peaceful protestors during the Great March of Return) (t · c) buidhe 00:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Ok, in that case I can create a new article, and leave a summary of that one here (WP:SUMMARYSTYLE). VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 01:00, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Vice regent I don't know that separating these related topics is beneficial for the encyclopedia , but I'm not going to argue about it. (t · c) buidhe 01:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Feedback

@Nishidani, can you please give me feedback on this article? I know we discussed it here a bit.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:51, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm really, really busy off-line. I have read the article, however, and fixed one poor sentence in the lead with a source. I'll try to get back to this when circumstances allow, but in the meantime, if you haven't yet, you might find some hints by reading

• Nicholas Parkin, 'Non-violent Resistance and Last Resort,' Journal of Military Ethics, 2016 Volume 15, issue 4 pp.259-274

There is a superb but very lengthy study by Yezid Sayigh which gives an in-depth coverage of the history of debates among Palestinian factions on this topic, and gives one all the background, beyond the legal questions, for it.

Yezid Sayigh, Armed Struggle and the Search for State:The Palestinian National Movement, 1949-1993, Oxford University Press 1993 ISBN 978-0-191-51354-1.

That is a very long haul, and I mention it just as something that might eventually interest you.The legal situation is pretty clear in any case. A state can ignore international law with impunity, behind a huge barrage of legal experts who can challenge 'ccusations' that its violations are violations, if it is forced to justify its structural violence against another people. Non-state actors are terrorists if they have recourse to counter-violence, or even if they don't (The case of Mustafa Akawi in Hebron in 1992 came to mind last night while reading about Sde Teiman. He was hauled out of his conjugal bed after midnight, and after appearing before an Israeli judge, still got pummeling and the famous whip-lash torture treatment, and died. The 'autopsy' said that at 35 years of age he'd died of hardening of the arteries. Regards Nishidani (talk) 08:48, 1 August 2024 (UTC)