Talk:Organic horticulture

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Merge discussion

The organic horticulture article should be merged here. It is mainly based on chunks of text from the organic farming article, updated with some useful gardening-specific stuff. I didn't bother with a merge tag, because there is nothing controversial here. It should be a quick job... --Tsavage 02:38, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, but hard to say. Horticulture in normal use means "the science of gardening", generally practiced by professionals (like me), while gardening is done by gardeners (usually the person that owns the garden). The difference might be too subtle to justify two articles. I'll try to write a horticulture article in my sandbox... SB Johnny 11:48, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. I didn't think it all the way through at the time (I was looking more at the content itself). The distinction between horticulture and gardening is important.

I guess then the main articles would be horticulture and organic farming methods (new article broken out from organic farming; not the ideal title, perhaps, but intended to separate organic cultural stuff from the details of organic farming, organic gardening,...organic horticulture). So an article here would summarize organic methods and horticulture, and differentiate horticulture from gardening? Or maybe it's a redirect to a section within horticulture? --Tsavage 01:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed these articles should be merged sooner rather than later before they diverge or replicate each other too much quercus robur 02:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe this merger could be accomplished successfully, so long as a person could enter either term (Organic horticulture or Organic gardening) and open the merged article.

Agreed this article and Organic gardening should be merged ASAP quercus robur 02:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

• comment not sure at moment. There is a clear difference between the two. Horticulture involves growing crops for sale, gardening involves growing food for your own consumption. There are different techniques used for two, as bulk growing does require a different aproach. There is also Organic framing which is different again. I reciently created Category:Organic farming, for the more agricultural side of things. --Salix alba (talk) 08:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Support merge with Organic Horticulture I propose to merge Organic Gardening with this article.

• Horticulture is defined by Merriam-Webster as the science and art of growing fruits, vegetables, flowers, or ornamental plants.

• Gardening is defined by Merriam-Webster as to lay out or work in a garden.

It would therefore seem that Horticulture is the subject where Gardening is a verb describing the action of doing a specific type of Horticulture most popularly known as growing flowers. Therefore, I believe the surviving title should be Organic horticulture. I have updated the merge tags to reflect this opinion. Alan.ca 10:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

• Merge. As "horticulture" essentially includes the "gardening", the "gardening" article should be incorporated into the "horticulture" article. Also, three out of six sections of the "gardening" article refers to other articles using the {{main}} template. Therefore, the actual article is shorter than it looks. It is incomplete as a standalone article. The same is true for the "horticulture article" and merging them would do everybody a service -- Emana 06:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge Completed from Organic gardening

I have completed the merge. As the source article was completely unreferenced, I did not merge any of the material. Anyone wishing to view the now redirected article in its prior state may refer to this link. Alan.ca 06:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Alan, I'm relatively new to this, so probably screwing up left and right. One thing I DO know however is organic gardening, which I have been practicing for 46 years. I also am a horticulturist, as I have had some formal classes plus years of self-directed study. Currently I am volunteering at Stan Hywet Hall and Gardens, a nationally and probably internationally renowned Tudor revival estate, as a horticulturist.

Anyway I think that the simplest, most direct approach would be to have a separate page for Organic Gardening & Farming and another for Horticulture, because horticulture is NOT inherently organic and probably the majority of formally trained Horticulturists, especially those working in the green industry, utilize an array of chemicals including herbicides, pesticides and commercially produced synthetic fertilizers. Some horticulturists do undoubtedly embrace an organic approach to gardening in their home food gardens, even if they may have to work in a chemically-oriented business. Also, there definitely ARE commercial nurseries whose owners follow organic techniques and philosophy. One I know of personally which is close to me in Ohio is Mulberry Creek herb farm. A quick search on line can turn up many others across the country, North America and even around the world. Thanks! Alice B Klar (talk) 15:51, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

IPM vs. Organic Pest Control differences

The last line of the article has ;

"Organic pest control is not synonymous, but shares some concepts with integrated pest management."

How is it different? Berean Hunter (talk) 00:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

reference

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html

Journey to Forever an NGO group has compiled what I think are great articles/books/reports containing some eastern and western observation by authors ranging from Weston A Price, Albert Howard, sir Robert Morrison, Joseph A. Cocannouer, George Oliver, Eugene Marias, water hyacinth, duckweed, mulberry leaves, guinea fowls, and other information of importance.

Even this list is incomplete, the Roman and Chinese agricultures, documented and can even still be seen in fragments.

Lastly I know it is not a "logical" source but Adam-Cain/Abel & Noah in the bible can be examples of "organic" farming. Notice Cain and abel were neither able to outperform Adam the ability was diminished slightly on Adam's next generation, and their reliance on their skills were divided into tending land and herding sheep. By the time Noah came to be an ultimate farmer, he was able to fuse these two knowledges of animals and of plants (pigeon?, grape, bees probably, timber building).

organic farming in its principle not based on technicality of words is probably simplified into protecting heirloom or "wild" type of seeds, and of course observing how nature works, how birds droppings can help fields, how the winter can kill a lot of germs, how a flood can bring silt to a normally low-fertility field, how everything is interconnected to each other. Why isn't urine taste like cola?

By protecting heirloom seeds, it means DNA diversification to select the best not necessarily by its handling and spoilage date compared with say its vitamine and other unknown benefits still undetermined accurately by science. And not just inbreeding and linebreeding but to ensure vigor in the gene pool.

Okay my opinions are probably uninformed and highly biased, but a lot of information out there from references specify about one subject usually, and it is hard to talk about horticulture or gardening without having livestock/humans/etc to tend it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.254.231 (talk) 12:54, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Ty1000 (talk) 03:32, 9 August 2010 (UTC)== Soil ==

Major claims without cites

"Impact on global food supply" seems to be a good deal of controversial opinion without any cites. What's the usual way of handling that sort of thing?

ChickenFreak (talk) 06:09, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

The typical responses to uncited text are either to (a)take some time and see if you can find a reliable source to support the text, (b) tag the end of the sentence or paragraph with a tag, and give other editors some time to come up with a reference, or (c)remove the uncited text entirely. I usually reserve (c) for things like direct quotes and financial numbers, which should always have a source.Dialectric (talk) 16:11, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks!

I ended up replacing the uncited claims in section "Impact on the global food supply" with cited material addressing most of the original concerns.

However, I wasn't able to address the assertion that seems to state that grocery store prices prove that organic agriculture is inherently more costly than conventional agriculture. It comes from a long sequence of individually uncited premises. Food production costs, especially on a global level, need to account for economies of scale, direct and indirect government subsidies, environmental costs from different practices, etc., etc. Anecdotal grocery prices can't replace that analysis. So I didn't re-incorporate that claim. ChickenFreak (talk) 05:25, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Meant to add: I'm not sure if the "global food supply" section even belongs here? It seems to be addressed over in Organic Farming. But I don't feel sure enough of that to actually remove or move it. ChickenFreak (talk) 05:33, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

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October 2022

Hello @Alice B Klar: This needs improvement. Invasive Spices (talk) 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Trying to add to the discussion on Horticulture vs Gardening. (sorry if this is not the correct place...) The difference between these two terms is not clear cut at all. Basically Gardening CAN be thought of as mostly an activity done by home hobbyists, but that is not necessarily always the case, what of the term "market gardening" and "market gardener"? Both occupations--Gardener and Horticulturist--deal w growing a variety of plant materials, and both will know/learn some scientific, factual information, but the Horticulturist usually is someone who formally (and perhaps informally) makes a study of the accumulated and on-going accumulation of scientific information. Like I said, the Gardener most often knows SOME scientific information, but they may also have many folk-ways or "tricks they learned from grandma or Uncle Lou" such as burying an egg by a plant or feeding milk to a pumpkin vine. While these may have some positive effect they are not based upon knowledge gained by research utilizing the scientific method. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alice B Klar (talk • contribs) 14:39, 3 October 2022 (UTC)