Talk:Omertà

Omerta book?

Who added it? What is it? and when is the artical going to be created? Jman8088 15:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't erase info

Do not erase the definition of Omerta by Rick. He is a decendant of mafia members, and there are THREE references to the same thing.It may not be 100% a perfect defenetion it is a GERERALY ACCEPTED view of the topic. User:Jman8088 Dec. 27, 2006. 11:41

I would be appreciated if you would temper your tone a bit. The fact that your contribution was removed indicates that it is not generally accepted. However, your intervention urged me to find a better definition. I have inserted a more academic one for the following reasons:

• as you indicate yourself it is not a 100% perfect definition;
• it is a very crude and oversimplified description of the phenomenon of omertà, inconsistent with the rest of the article which gives a much more nuanced description;
• there is no “law of omertà”; mafiosi do not make laws, they only break them;
• I can give you a dozen better definitions from more reliable sources than the ‘novel’ of ‘Rick’ (your definition reads more like an advertisement for a particular book);
• as you can see in the new version of the article, Porrello’s definition is not very original but goes back to one of the first Mafia researchers, Antonio Cutrera, a former officer of public security, in 1900.

I kept Porrello’s definition as a “popular” one (and added the right reference for the book including the publisher, as well as the page were the definition can be found, as well as the right ISBN number, which apparently was too much trouble for you to do).

I did remove the reference to the Lamb of God song. In a previous version of the article mentioning one heavy metal band led to an avalanche of other bands who yelled omerta in one of their songs. It does not add anything significant and I suggest you include it in the article about Lamb of God, where it is more appropriate. Thanks for your cooperation. - Mafia Expert 21:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

When did Rick become the end all of mafia information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.124.189.39 (talk) 19:53, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I understand your hesitation to The Pop. Ref., I'll regurally check it for vandilism or a massive influx of unneccisary references. Jman8088 15:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Who erased the omerta in popular culture?

It read:

In Popular Culture

The American metal band Lamb of God has a song by the title of "Omerta" (the lack of accent should be noted) that is about a break in "Omertà". The opening of the song contains a paraphrased version of Omertà.

"Omerta" was the title of episode 9 in series 3 of the TV show Millennium, which featured an executed mafioso found alive many years later, who remained silent on how he had survived.

Omerta is refered to in the Sopranos 6th season episode, "Johnny Cakes." It was brought up by Dr. Melfi's own psychiatrist, in reference to Tony Soprano remaining silent after being shot by Junior Soprano. She ultimately stated she did not believe it was due to Omerta, but rather "something else."

I think this should really be brought back, minus the lamb of god reference. 67.86.77.111 05:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The pop culture section is back. Do not erase it. The LoG reference stands. They are a grammy-nominated band, and, therefore, reputable band. JMan8088 21:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. DChase1 00:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Popular Culture once again added. DO NOT DELETE IT. --67.8.177.219 23:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Popular Culture added, with links. Please do not delete. --173.64.90.216 (talk) 20:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The Lamb of God album is already mentioned at the top in disambiguation. Omerta is mentioned in hundreds of TV shows and in several episodes of the Soprano. They are simply not relevant and not even references as well. - Mafia Expert (talk) 13:49, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed The "Lamb of god" reference weakens this article. Grammy award not withstanding, promoting popular culture here in this context is an abuse. Richardsidler (talk) 14:51, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Suggest content to put in Omertà in context

It is a nonviolent resistance component of the criminal self-help that occurs as part of a resistance movement that rejects an authority for whatever reason.

The above sentence places this behavior in the context of similar human behavior such as POW's not talking to to their captors. The essence is not accepting an authority for whatever reason. Omertà differs from POW's not talking and other resistance to authority, but that is the class of human behavior it is a part of. WAS 4.250 (talk) 19:57, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Omerta is a law of silence that is forced upon a population under the dominion of a criminal society and not only concerns a code between criminals. It is imposed through the threat of violence and occasionally with violence to underline the fact that who breaks omerta will be killed. To call this nonviolent resistance and criminal self-help is complete nonsense. It also not rejects authority, on the contrary it is imposed by violent authority. Furthermore, you do not provide references for your statements. Conclusion: unreferenced nonsense. - Mafia Expert (talk) 20:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

How about: "It is criminal self-help that occurs as part of resistance to an authority for whatever reason."

My only concern here is to provide a conceptual context as in this human behavior fits in this class of human behaviors. I was thinking of Omertà more in terms of a specific individual rather than a group that enforces it, but you are right that calling it nonviolent is nonsense. WAS 4.250 (talk) 21:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry, but the criminal self help thing is not relevant. It is not self help but an imposed rule enforced by violence and has nothing to do with resistance. And you still have not provided a reference to back up your claim. An encyclopedia is not about what you think, but what is backed up by relevant sources. Otherwise it does not fall under NPOV. - Mafia Expert (talk) 01:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

External link error

The link on the main article that lists "Mafia Speak" as the target is incorrect.

http://www.madaboutbooks.com/CosaNostra/mafiaspeak.htm

this URL produces an error.

CasR2207 (talk) 02:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Misleading vibe in following quotes

Within Mafia culture, breaking the oath of omertà is punishable by death.

There's no citation to this quote.

Omertà is a popular attitude and code of honor, common in areas of southern Italy, such as Sicily, Calabria, and Campania, where criminal organizations like the Mafia, 'Ndrangheta, and Camorra are strong.

First of all, it's common knowledge that the mafia (especially Cosa Nostra) has been virtually fully dismantled. Most of who ever was alive from previous generations is either imprisoned or their hands are tied too tight. There's always some form of illegal drug trading going on in every country which is what 'Ndrangheta currently is or was in Italy in the previous decade or so. This is not associated with Cosa Nostra though. In fact, if Costa Nostra had more than a mild sense of existence, they'd be rivals. This quote gives off the wrong vibe in that Italian citizen's would live according to underground organizations. It'd be like an American acting a specific way because of drug dealers. While it is impacting in certain areas (and arguably much more than in Italy & Europe), it has no cultural impact on people's psychological structure. There's no source that supports this is how Italian's think though. And from my personal experience with those in southern Italy, I haven't experienced this. TomNyj0127 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:27, 5 September 2009 (UTC).

Repeated vandalism

An IP jumping anon has been repeatedly rolling back the article to a version of the article dated 26 June 2008 with no reason provided for wiping out over 100 intermediate edits (see diff showing relationship between IPs version and out-dated version). The vandalism has been undone by multiple other editors.

For reference, here's the diff showing to the current version, demonstrating the number of edits being wiped out. At least one IP has already been blocked, and returned to the vandalism once their one-week block expired.

I am guessing the roll-back is either related to a desire to restore the "Popular culture", or to restore the larger list of {{for}} tags at the top. Either way, those references that are notable and which are not unsourced original research are now listed at Omerta (disambiguation), so those sections are no longer relevant. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:29, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Locked

You might as well just lock it for a year because we'll probably just change it on February 1st. -thefoundation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.237.250.200 (talk) 06:14, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Masaduma

& there is Masaduma of the Dönmeh people of Turkey... Böri (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Origin

The line "In Sicily, the phenomenon of pentito broke omertà." does not make sense. I can't even discern what it is trying to say. Somebody with insight into the intent should fix this line.Bcworkz (talk) 09:18, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Omertà in professional cycling

Omertà has been used to refer to a code of silence among professional cyclists with respect to doping with performance enhancing drugs. Certainly used as early as 1990, in Paul Kimmage's Rough Ride, and still today. The term has been prevalent in recent coverage of Lance Armstrong conceding his fight against doping charges, as well as the slightly less recent cases of now admitted dopers Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.162.33.11 (talk) 10:22, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Mafia

This insistence on calling mainland groups "Mafia-type" is complete nonsense. There is only one Mafia in Italy and that is in Sicily, and the mainland groups are run in a completely different way. There is no valid comparison between the two. Comparing Sicilian Mafia to the American Mafia is one thing, since Italian-American families in the US are overwhelmingly of Sicilian descent. But mainland groups? This is conflating the issues and promoting Italian state propaganda and prejudice. It is absolutely not NPOV. Laval (talk) 11:19, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

There is a difference between calling similar criminal organizations Mafia organizations or Mafia-type organizations. The latter is specifically to distinguish between these organizations and the Mafia proper, while recognizing certain common features, such as the organization structures, characteristics and their modus operandi. The most obvious one is exactly omertà, which is a common feature of Italian based crime organizations such as Cosa Nostra, the Ndrangheta, the Camorra etc.; and even not alien to non-Italian organizations such as the Chinese Triads and the Japanese Yakuza. I see you started a a ANI procedure. I explained it there as well. - DonCalo (talk) 18:43, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Too romanticized a page for such a grim subject.

I can understand that the omertà might be derived from a refusal to accept a governement's rule or some sovereignty violation. But I cannot believe that there isn't even a paragraph that explains this phenomenon as a way for the strongest to keep the weakest in submission. Thanks to this method of keeping the law at bay, the weak have no other choice than to accept any abuse or to demand for reparation in exchange for favours or money. Through the existence of omertà, the strongest can be assured that the Jungle law will be preserved, which is the best system for the strong to thrive in. And I feel that this rhetoric is nowhere to be seen in this article.

I will try to incorporate this view if I find the time and a good article on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sinekonata (talk • contribs) 16:01, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Code of honor vs. code of silence ?

"Code of honor" is a value-laden term. "Code of silence" or "code of behavior" seems more neutral and appropriate. I can appreciate, in the abstract, the idea that Omertà preaches self-reliance. But that is not the same thing as honor. In the context of criminal organizations, it seems a bit out of place to refer to a code of honor. I would apply the same criticism to the concept of honor among Yakuza organizations -- another criminal group which, in popular culture, is though to practice a code of honor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.213.152.162 (talk) 05:39, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

All sources can either not be traced, or are very unreliable, or are now deadlinks

This page either needs to be archived, or drastically rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.228.32.40 (talk • contribs) 11:43, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

An unexpected re-use of the word

• Daily Telegraph 2021 May 7 page 1 in an article about the 2021 France-Jersey fishing dispute mentions a French fishing boat just under 12 meters long, named L'Omerta. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 13:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Word italicization

I see that this word isn't consistently italicized in the article. Or is it not supposed to be italicized? --UltimateKuriboh (talk) 15:15, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Catholic relationship

Is this not related to Jesuit practice and the Christian injunction not to settle disputes in court? This article requires a complete rewrite 86.29.30.198 (talk) 18:13, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

If you provide Wikipedia:Reliable sources which support the claim that there is a relation between Omertà and Christian practices, that might be interesting. If it's relevant enough, we might add that information to the article. — Chrisahn (talk) 21:41, 10 August 2023 (UTC)