Talk:New Pony/GA1

Latest comment: 2 years ago by ErnestKrause in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Reviewer: ErnestKrause (talk · contribs) 15:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)Reply


Review GAN for current Editor Drive request. This may a take a day or two. To get started, have you thought about including a possible image in the short Covers section of the article, since there's only one image in the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

General review comments

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(1) Lead section sentence needs a conjunction 'and' added: "...such as Son House's "Black Pony Blues" Charley Patton's track "Pony Blues.""

(2) Is the song saying that the old pony "Lucifer" is being replaced by a 'new pony'? If that's the case, then the article should make some mention of it, possibly also reflect it in the lead section. There is also the possible metaphor of a 'broken' leg pointing to a broken relationship, that is, a break-up song.

  • I don't think we can be sure whether Lucifer is the new pony and/or "Miss X". Oliver Trager (in Keys to the Rain) writes "Dylan's 'New Pony' (a filly conveniently named Lucifer)...". Heylin, in what seems to one of his rather ungrounded speculations in Still On The Road, wrote that Dylan called the song "New Pony" "lest it was burdened down by the many 'Pony Blues' that come before". I don't recall any of the books talking about the broken leg metaphor, but happy to look into this if you have a source to point me to. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:53, 31 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

(3) Is this a 'live' version at Paris Soundcheck here: [1]. This version also has an extra verse included which might be mentioned in this article:

Well now its early in the morning, I see your shadow in the door

Early in the morning, I see your shadow in the door

Now i dont have to ask nobody

I know what you came here for.

(4) It might be worth looking at splitting the opening section to separate out "Lyrics and interpretation" from your current "Background, recording and interpretation". That would give more room to decide if its a break-up song with a new pony, that is, new girlfriend coming into his life, etc. The standard lyrics can be found on lyricsmode.com or elsewhere on the net.

(5) Recording section. There is an electric guitar solo mid-way through the song. Is this worth covering, was it Dylan playing his electric guitar? Also, there is the closing sax solo which might be mentioned here.

(6) Phrase 'that he had mixed in, and changed, different musical genres" may look better without the commas inserted.

(7) Soundcheck version in Paris seems to have an extra verse in it. See above comment.

(8) 42-word sentences generally should be broken up into 2 sentences due to length: "Keith Phipps and Steven Hayden described "New Pony" as "perhaps Dylan's dirtiest sex song," while Nigel Williamson admired the track's "deliciously lustful carnality" and Mike Daly in The Age felt that the "thinly disguised eroticism" was part of an enjoyable "gutsy blues-rock"." It seems too long as a single sentence.

(9) There is a good phto of Jerry Scheff on his Wikipedia page which might look good in the Personal section with a new caption.

(10) Optionally consider doing an image of Larkin Poe in the Covers section, if you decide you will not include the Jerry Scheff photo in the Personnel section.

(11) The repetition of the back-up chorus "How much longer" makes the main topic of the song's lyrics even more explicit and might be covered in a new Lyrics section if you take that approach mentioned above.

I'll look in once in a while to see if there are any updates or if there are any questions for clarification of my comments. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC) (9)Reply

Hi ErnestKrause. Thanks for the review. All of the suggestions seem helpful and constructive, and I've made a start on the straightforward ones. The alternate lyrics lead into a bit of a rabbithole. Two different versions are printed in The Lyrics: Since 1962, one of which has the "(How much longer)"s that at least one commentator notes are missing from the earlier published lyrics. The other version in that book is the "shadow on the door" version, but apparently without any explanatory notes. (For other songs, there are usually notes about date played live, alternate takes etc.) I don't own the book (it was a limited edition, and copies go for about £450) but I'll have a look at the British Library's copy in the next few days in case I missed something. There is almost certainly a reliable source that talks about the soundcheck version, so, again, give me a couple days to look into that. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
Its looking fairly good so far; I'll look forward to seeing the "How much longer" chorus treated in the article and then continue with comments as needed. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:40, 1 June 2022 (UTC)Reply
I think it's ready for another look, ErnestKrause. I've responded to your comments above. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Second set of comments

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(1) "I had a pony, her name was Lucifer"; it might be worth saying something in parenthesis like "(repeat twice)" for the opening verse.

(2) Regarding if "Lucifer" is the old pony being replaced by the new pony, then there is the comment of your reviewer in the article stating, "may be mostly a question about how much longer you will be satisfied with your new pony-woman and not have to shoot her to put her out of her misery before you can get some other new pony". That means that there is a recognition that there is "some other new pony" type of cycle going on in the lyrics. Also, 'Lucifer' is not mentioned again in the song after the first stanza. This seems to support that 'Lucifer' may have been changed over for "some other new pony".

(3) I'm inclined to go with you on "She broke her leg" probably metaphorically meaning something more akin to his girlfriend no longer being responsive to his boyfriend needs.

(4) Regarding 'Lucifer' again, the lyrics Dylan uses should be noted for being in the past tense: "I swear it hurt me more...". Its as if Dylan is saying, metaphorically, that he already completed the break-up and that if hurt him emotionally. Then the 'new pony' comes on the scene in the next verses.

(5) Wording at this point looks like it may need a second look since the current version says: "the backing singers include Dylan's both Dylans's girlfriend at the time, Springs...". That phrase here "Dylan's both Dylan's..." looks like it can be simplified.

(6) Throughout the article, I'm not sure if you need all of those paragraph breaks you apply in most all the sections. Some of your short back-to-back paragraphs can be combined easily into one paragraph. Less paragraph breaks might look better.

(7) New images in personal section look pretty good. I'm not sure if they look better stacked vertically or horizontally (using multiple images templates). You can decide whichever one you prefer.

(8) Is it worth noting the length of the two solos in the song, how many seconds. Also, possibly mention that the sax solo seems to be used as what sounds like an outro at the end of the song in the version I heard.

  • The text in the article already identifies the two solos and the artists; is it worth indicating how many seconds of the song each of them takes up. I leave this for you to decide. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:01, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Those new edits look pretty good. After you take a look at these new comments, then I'll look in to see if any issues remain. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:48, 4 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, ErnestKrause. I wan't sure if any changes were expeceted on points 2 and 3. Replies to the other points are above. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:01, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Week-end comments

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(1) That new multi-image looks improved. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

(2) This quote appears to be in the Composition section: "may be mostly a question about how much longer you will be satisfied with your new pony-woman and not have to shoot her to put her out of her misery before you can get some other new pony". Somehow the old-pony to new-pony cycle might use another word or two to describe it in this section. Does the listener to the song actually hear the process go one full cycle of an old girlfreind replaced by a new one having already arrived, or, is it all about his current love interest "Lucifer" going into the final phases before replacement? Somehow it would be nice to see this resolved in some way since the above comment quoted recognizes this full cycle of new girlfriend arrival-departure-replacement. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

(3) No closing double quote mark after at the end of the quote: "with Bob barking the vocal...". Closing double quote mark needed. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

(4) Your phrase ""New Pony" superficially concerns a pony..." might look better as ""New Pony" ostensively concerns a pony...". ErnestKrause (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

(5) Your phrase "The backing singers sing "How much longer?" a number of times", could add more stress on this here since the backup singers sings nothing but this three word refrain over and over again. It seems more than a 'number of times' since they sing nothing else but these words. For example, "The backup singers support the delivery of Dylan's singing of the entire song by repeating the same refrain "How much longer" from the start to the end of the song," or something like that. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)   Pending. (I think Gray has something in Song and Dance Man about the refrain.)Reply

(6) Otherwise, it looks nearly done. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Closing comments: Item #5 is optional. The article looks much improved in its narrative and its presentation of the material. The multi-image format does alot for the personnel section. Promoting article. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:08, 6 June 2022 (UTC)Reply