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editWhy now after the dispute seem to be somewhat over? OneGuy 01:28, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Another question: why are references to Muslim terrorist training camps excluded? It is fact that there are whole towns and countries who teach hatred and teach terrorism. To ignore this would be to ignore truth and reality. There are Muslim schools set up to teach hundreds and hundreds of children to hate non-muslims and that advocate terrorism in the religions name of Muslim gods. Ignoring this would be to ignore current events. Many middle east Muslims believe that all non-muslims are bad and shouldn't exist. Why isn't this ideology allowed to be shown? It IS reality. It IS truth. Why ignore reporting their hatred for everyone else? There are hundreds upon hundreds of children being taught to hate all non-muslims by MUSLIM leaders. Why can this NOT be shown? There are schools where the American Flag and christian and jewish symbols are used as floormats in bathrooms in MUSLIM schools in order to subtly brainwash the students to walk all over them. This is REALITY.. THIS IS TRUTH. I agree that not all Muslims are like this, but there are hundreds of thousands that do and THAT deserves "credit" in an encylopedia. If you can cover the christian crusades, you MUST cover IN DEPTH the relatively NEW MUSLIM ideologies of hate and terrorism which INCLUDES jihad but is also not limited to simple Muslim schools of hate. This is just one example http://www.journal.com.ph/news.asp?pid=1&sid=1&nid=358&month=5&day=2&year=2004 and here is another one: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3540600/ Wikipedia is ignoring truth.
Oh yeah, muslims don't celebrate "Every" time a terrorist bomb blows up innocent civilians, but they frequently do and in large numbers. Don't fight over semantics or nitpick on words. The concept was and is still true.
- Prove it. Post the evidence that Muslims celebrated terrorist bomb blows, and do it WITHOUT citing political (or land dispute) cases like Palestine, Kashmir, or Iraq. And remember, you must prove that celebrations occurred in large numbers and was seen on the media like Al - Jazeera (as the article originally claimed -- not an unknown name of a religious fanatic). OneGuy 02:15, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
You are missing the point oneguy. Children are taught to hate and kill in mass numbers in the name of Muslim/Islam ideals. Why do you ignore this issue? Further, do you really believe "Al-Jazeera" is all that ethical, reliable, or trustworthy as a news source?
And oneguy: You don't deserve this quote as you will specifically try to purposely pull it apart to find something to twist, but here is ONE example of muslims celebrating death and suicide of others: http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_9_11_02fd.html and further, things like Palestine, Sudan, Kashmir, Iraq and others cannot be excluded just because they INCLUDE political problems. They are rooted in Muslim/Islam ideals which INCLUDES political, but heavily based on religious values. Palestinians, when they blow up innocent jewish children say they do it in the name of Islam. Just because it isn't specifically ethnic cleansing specificially, it is still in the NAME of religion which is just as bad. But you CANNOT sit there and say some forms of religious war (in the name of political) and others forms of religious war not in the name of land are different. They both encompass Muslim/Islam people fighting others in the name of their Islam/Muslim god, substantiating their causes WITH RELIGIOUS IDEALS AND RATIONALE. Oneguy - you just don't want to admit fact that Muslim/Islamic people frequently kill and destroy in the name of Muslim/Islam, whether over land, values, religion, oil, or whatever. It isn't what they terrorize the rest of the world in the name of - it is the fact that they terrorize to begin with, and train the children young while impressionable.
- That's not true. The root of cause of the problem in the examples you gave (like Palestinian) is land and political. The religion is used latter to justify the action. There were no suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. Now there are. Why? The root cause is not religion in these political/land disputes. You have not proven anything here. As for out of context quotes and rambling below, read the Bible. You will find a lot more quotes to justify anything. Proves nothing. You failed to give any convincing example of large group of Muslims celeberating every terrorist attack. Try again. OneGuy 18:02, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Tabari IX:69 “Arabs were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us.”
Muslim:C20B1N4597 “The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: ‘There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.’”
Qur’an 61:4 “Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause.” Ishaq:300 “I am fighting in Allah’s service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah’s war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good.”
Bukhari:V4B52N63 “A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, ‘Allah’s Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?’ The Prophet said, ‘Embrace Islam first and then fight.’ So he embraced Islam and was martyred. Allah’s Apostle said, ‘A Little work, but a great reward.’” Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’”
Qur’an 47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”
Ishaq:315 “It was so criminal, men could hardly imagine it. Muhammad was ennobled because of the bloody fighting. I swear we shall never lack soldiers nor army leaders. Driving before us infidels until we subdue them with a halter above their noses and a branding iron. We will drive them to the ends of the earth. We will pursue them on horse and on foot. We will never deviate from fighting in our cause. Any people that disobey Muhammad will pay for it. If you do not surrender to Islam, then you will live to regret it. You will be shamed in Hell, forced to wear a garment of molten pitch forever!”
Ishaq:208 “When Allah gave permission to his Apostle to fight, the second Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of submission. Now we bound ourselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle. He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances.”
This is not indicative of a peace loving NICE religion. What they need to do is drop their antiquated jihad war-efforts and win the hearts of many just as the other religions did - peacefully and through political persuasion. There are better ways to change minds than blowing yourself and other children up. On a modern front, many other religions try through diplomacy. I wish the religion would say to love other religions no matter what. It's not a religious jihad (war), but the muslim community is taking it as one. Very silly. Many other religions have animal sacrafice still in the bible, but realize it is a silly thing and don't practice that part of it. War or hatred or intolerence of other cultures is so outdated and purile. It is these very ideals which they use to substantiate suicide bombing of innocent civilians that unfortunately is still part of Muslim/ISlam teaching and is ignored by the media. Their time would be better spent verbally persuading rather than through fear. THey might win the short-term but it doesn't look good for the religion as a whole in the long term. Even if they are trying to convert the world to Muslim, they should sell the religion a little better. Why would I want to join just to blow myself up years later?