Talk:Motor vehicle theft/Archive 1

Archive 1

April 2003

This is generally understood to refer to the stealing of automobiles, buses, motorcycles, snowmobiles, trucks, and the like; but not to aircraft, boats, bulldozers, and spacecraft.

So, exactly what is the term for theft of spacecraft? Space vehicle theft? What about stealing of bulldozers? Egil

Depending how it's done, I would think it'd be piracy, mutiny, hijacking, or privateering, or classed as "spoils of war". It would certainly be interesting to see a test case in court. <g> -- John Owens

Actually the text I have here says that it is simply larceny. (anon)

The coolest vehicle I've ever seen stolen is a tank. The Killdozer was better than the tank, but it wasn't stolen. I guess if someone stole a space shuttle, that would top both of them easily.

You're referring to Shawn Nelson's notorious tank rampage. --Coolcaesar 07:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Image

This article is considerably bland without a single image. I have replaced the image and changed the wording to be more descriptive. Whatever the case, this shows vehicle entry without keys and hence hot-wiring etc. Consider discussing the image or finding a more suitable one before removing it. Theonlysilentbob (talk) 06:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

first car theft

I have no source but the first car theft was in 1896. If anyone knows more it would be nice to put it in the article.__-_-_-__ 02:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Spelling error

The last section says "Police deparments" instead of "Police departments" in its second paragraph. 66.245.152.77 (talk) 04:06, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. DineshAdv (talk) 16:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Spacecraft?

From the article: 'This is generally understood to refer to the stealing of automobiles, buses, motorcycles, snowmobiles, trucks, and the like; but not to aircraft, boats, bulldozers, and spacecraft.'

Was there some case of spacecraft theft in the past? This sounds strange. --Michael Sch. 17:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

No, biut its always good ot be prepared--Ssteiner209 (talk) 23:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Add youngest car thieves?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=41f_1231364891 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/29/7-year-old-car-thief-its_n_99178.html http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/29252724.html http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Daddys-Little-Car-Thief.html http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14305211/detail.html http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6506551.html http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6b0_1197486252 There are so many!

No one has ever talked about eliminating all automobiles, & building up, have they? Stars4change (talk) 21:27, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

most common stolen cars

This section either needs infomation abou other countries and some sorces or it needs chucking. I believe the Vauxhall Belmont is the most stolen car by ratio in the UK and that the Cavalier is often top of list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.187.246 (talk) 02:35, 24 August 2008 (UTC) Could someone add this reference? -- Top 10 Most Stolen Cars in Canada - http://www.ibc.ca/en/Insurance_Crime/Top_Ten_Stolen_Cars/2009.asp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.155.51.153 (talk) 05:11, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Common Tools Used

This section was very enlightening. Thanks for the hints 86.185.205.110 (talk) 22:41, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Expand the topic?

I found this article sorely lacking (not criticizing anyone, just making a point). I would like to see the following content here:

Statistics both per country and over time, or at least link(s) to same, as well as theft rate per car models.

Sociological aspects (why some locales experience more car theft than others, demographics of typical thieves, etc.).

Preventative measures by car owners, countermeasures by thieves, counter-countermeasures, etc., and the usefulness of each kind of deterrent/defense (Club, Lojack/Onstar, alarms, VIN etching, passive non-alarm systems, etc.).

I've been doing some research over the past few days, but there's a lot of misinformation laying about on the web, or I'd do it myself. John DiFool2

On a leisurely sidenote, this article might include a reference to the "Gone in Sixty Seconds" movie. CrystyB

Also add the class/severity of the crime. That was the whole point of my looking this up, only to find a complete lack of the word 'felony'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.149.166.33 (talk) 10:59, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

NPOV

I don't think this article has a very neutral POV. At the bottom, it refers to Mexico and former Soviet Union nations having a lack of customs control or database access. I would think that this is just flat-out not true, but I don't know. In any case, I believe it biased. --Zeromaru 01:45:19, 2005-09-06 (UTC)

Actually, I feel like I have to support this opinion. This is true, however, that there were paths of stolen car trafficking from Germany to Eastern Europe, but this is only part of the truth. Generally, smuggling of stolen luxury cars (or other luxury goods) happens everywhere where there is a relative difference of opulence in neighbouring countries, so there's nothing informative in this paragraph. To maintain NPOV it should describe it either in more details, or in general as I did it in last sentence.

From what I have heard it is true that many cars stolen in the US end up in Mexico, perhaps because it is (obviously) easier to evade US authorities when you get the thing over the border. I took out specific mention of Mexico and the former Soviet countries (personally I think calling these states "former Soviet" is really dumb because the term is so vague) and tried to make that part more generic. How do you think it reads now? -- Andyluciano 23:23, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

It reads good. At the time of my edit, I couldn't exactly word it suitably enough, so I added the NPOV notice with the hopes that someone would be able to. And you have. I've removed the NPOV notice, since I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who complained about the POV. If anybody else feels that the article still lacks a NPOV, feel free to re-add the notice. --Zeromaru 02:47:01, 2005-09-11 (UTC)

Still, it's only missing the "come to Poland/Russia/Wherever, your car is already here" jokes. And from what I know, luxury car thefts are only big when counted in value. Most cars are stolen to be dismantled for parts - which are so much easier to bring back to market.

What can you do when your previous landlord removed your non-running car and all of you belongings from your apartment you were moving out of without going through an eviction process? Is that still Motor Vehicle Theft? -Loria (mommawhitetigerx3@yahoo.com)

In the US, without proper eviction and the three weeks wait, it is be lack of due process. You can Always throw GTA charges at the landlord and see it they stick. If he/she has broken the law, they will be scared and return it.

If you suddenly leave without paying rent, and leave any property 3 weeks or more, this constitutes breaking of the lease and any/all property left is forfeit.68.231.184.217 (talk) 14:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

"grand theft auto"

Where does this name come from? A more normal word order would be 'grand auto theft' (or 'grand theft of automobiles' with 'grand' meaning 'serious,' presumably). Is it a colloquial term? Njál 22:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

As far as I understand it, grand comes from the Law French that was common in old England along with Law Latin. Grand is simply big and petit is small. For example, there were grand juries that did big investigations to indict criminal suspects and petit juries which convicted suspects of crimes (both of which we still have today, although most laypersons aren't familiar with the term petit jury because it's only used in law schools). Somehow petit got turned into the English term "petty" in many contexts, so now we have grand theft (for high-value thefts) and petty thefts (for everything else). I think the addition of the auto part was probably police slang as a way to shorten "grand theft of an automobile" but I'm not sure. --Coolcaesar 00:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Isn't there a Petty Theft auto? Petty theft is value $950 or under.68.231.184.217 (talk) 14:20, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

My truck would count, then. I spent a whopping $535.49 on it, and I've put over a hundred thousand on the odometer since then. It's probably barely worth more than it's weight in scrap iron to the rest of the world at this point. 74.240.231.32 (talk)

"may not press charges"?

I have deleted this line, as in all crimes except Murder, the victim has a right, in the US, to not press charges.

In fact, my brand new car, value $7500 in 1991 dollars, was broken into and the stereo stoen,. I found the theif was on a :"first-timers diversion program" and, not only could I Not press charges of attempted GTA, or vandalism, I could not even sue him in civil court for damages.68.231.184.217 (talk) 14:21, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Nationwide

What is meant by "nationwide" in the first paragraph? I suppose that refers to the U.S., but it should be written explicitly. The U.S. is neither the world, nor the only country that uses English (and hence could be seen as the language-based context of the statement). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.61.195 (talk) 19:50, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Why is this a different crime than 'theft'?

Theft is illegal, and so theft of a car is also illegal. Why would anyone need a different law for cars? I don't think it's about the cost of the car, because you can steal things that are more or less expensive than a car... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.112.139.195 (talk) 18:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Car theft involves entering into a "private space" or "property", in most jurisdictions inside a locked vehicle is considered private space and requires warrant or consent for a search. Also car theft involves driving of vehicle which is part of moving violations, moving private property, and breaking and entering. All these makes motor vehicle theft a higher crime than say shoplifting or pickpocket, and in most jurisdictions falls under grand theft, auto. Neoking (talk) 23:53, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Pointless statistics

What does the number of vehicle thefts per capita mean? The rates can only be compared if you assume that the number of vehicles per capita is the same. Developed, car-dependent countries have anywhere from 500 to 800 cars per capita, while developing countries have in the range of 100-200. Undeveloped countries have as few as 2 cars per 1000 people. Italy and Malaysia might have a similar number of thefts per capita, but the number of vehicles in Italy is twice Malaysia. The number of thefts per vehicle is 50% higher in Malaysia than Italy. The rate of vehicle theft ins countries with large populations and very few vehicles is meaningless statistical noise.

This table might make some kind of sense given context, such as grouping the countries by degree of motorization, or at least adding population and number of vehicles, and thefts per vehicle, to the table. The more meaningful context would be the general rate of crime in a country -- all else being equal, the norm would be for motor vehicle theft to track with other property crime. But when motorization, industrialization, wealth, and/or urbanization are unequal, comparing car theft rates per capita means nothing. As it stands, the data with only number of thefts and thefts per capita is useless gibberish. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:31, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Reason

Hello, the article doesn't describe the reason why cars are stolen. Yes it's usually for money, but there's many ways of making money with stolen cars. Can you expand the article to describe them? Thanks! --167.58.4.82 (talk) 21:00, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)

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Penalties?

Biggest weakness of this article: it makes no mention of what are the potential penalties for committing this crime.75.163.155.188 (talk) 10:52, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Exactly Mrmorgan23 (talk) 20:41, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Request for demographics breakdown. Race and sex of offenders and victims.

Looking for a statistical breakdown by demographics of race and sex of offenders and victims and other data available, including trend by year, including source(s). Some people espouse the wild opinion that 66 to 80 pct of automobile thefts are committed by african american offenders (adjusted or not adjusted? i don't know). I'd like to see these numbers. - 67.0.252.139 (talk) 22:04, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

That’s not really the topic of this article. Wikipedia articles aren’t intentionally written for the purpose of settling bar bets or online forum debates. You might try WP:Reference desk. But since you know it’s a wild opinion, what else do you need? It sounds like you’re talking to people who don’t care about facts anyway, right? —Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:20, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

You might also suggest adding data on this at Talk:Race and crime in the United States, if you can cite who this 60% statistic comes from. If it is from a significant source, it could be worth covering. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:23, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

GTA

Motor vehicle theft should be the proper title, Grand theft auto is a specific charge of larceny in America for multiple car thefts ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.213.126.109 (talk) 10:31, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, the "grand" merely refers to a distinction between an ordinary theft and a theft involving a high monetary value. TooManyFingers (talk) 04:41, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

The point is that it's always charged as "grand theft, auto" or just "grand theft auto" in the United States (at least in states that use the Field Penal Code or one of the variants thereof). Casually, it is always "stealing a car" or "car theft," never "motor vehicle theft." Also, the "grand" doesn't necessarily refer to high monetary value. In California, a Field Penal Code state, grand theft auto is defined by Penal Code section 487(d)(1) to include stealing of any car. --Coolcaesar (talk) 19:42, 29 December 2019 (UTC)