Talk:Moral turpitude

Start of discussion

I have created this page, having had great difficulty finding this information initially myself, so it is the result of my research, rather than be being a great expert on the subject. It quotes extensively from the State Department Document , but that being a Federal Government document, it is by definition in the public domain, so I do not see any problems there. Medconn 17:36, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

BTW only after creating the page (containing information I desperately needed and had been unable to find elsewhere without hours of searching), did I discover just how many links there were already to the topic, which until I created the article merely linked only to a rather unhelpful dictionary definition. So, it looks as if I have jumped into the middle of an existing controversy, but I am being bold, as I believe that my new article is genuinely encyclopædic going way beyond a simple definition, and fills a real information need. I have however left the link to the Wiktionary definition for those that prefer it. Let me know if you disagree Medconn 17:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

In the second paragraph it says "The concept of moral turpitude escapes precise definition" but the rest of the article then attempts to do just that. Why does it escape precise definition? For the same reason that it is hard to find the sort of stuff that bloats the article: this is one of those expressions in law that are ambulatory - its connotation remains the same but its denotation changes over time.

The term is not obsolete in other common law jurisdictions. (1) It is an essential element in a number of common law offences eg negligent manslaughter and actual fraud and (2) it is often referred to as a standard when when determining whether a person is of good character especially in connection with (a) the registration of person to practise in certain professions (where there is an element of a requirement of public confidence:law, medicine, finance), (b) for migration law and (c) voter registration.

See, for example:

Privy Council

Australia

Bermuda

England and Wales

Gambia

India

Malaysia

New Zealand

Pakistan

Singapore

I propose to edit in these terms.

Otherthinker (talk) 04:07, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I came across this page searching for the right word to add to an essay. I wasn't even close in spelling or pronunciation: perpitude is what I searched for. This Wikipedia page defined the word I wanted to use in the I Have a Dream essay. My suggestion is to change the analogy of homosexual in the definition. Whether you're for or against homosexuality, the analogy distracts the understanding of the word "turpitude". I spent three or four minutes trying to figure out the slant on the subject. It seems that an analogy with a clearer historical and universal consensus of the direction of moral correctness should be used. Slavery, the Salem Witch Trials, The American Indian Trail of Tears, etc. BenDoGood (talk) 19:24, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Voter Registration Laws

The term "moral turpitude" is use in the voter registration laws of Georgia and Alabama (and perhaps other states?). There is scant definition of what falls into this category, so both states have been denying voter registration to all felons.

• Georgia apparently still denies all felons: http://www.acluga.org/voting.rights.html
• Alabama received a court order to change its practices: http://www.naacpldf.org/content.aspx?article=975

Samatva 13:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I added a section discussing the Georgia and Alabama laws to the article. Dash77 (talk) 01:57, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Maryland also punishes felons convicted of crimes involving moral turpitude with the loss of the right to vote, even after completing their sentences in the penitentiary. I know about this in a legal case involving a close friend who had a female witness (his estranged wife) commit perjury against him in divorce court, and he could PROVE it.

His estranged wife's lawyer tried to ascribe her statements as being those of an "ignorant hillbilly", so something like that, but the judge did not swallow this argument. 98.67.165.215 (talk) 17:19, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Sebastian Horsley

The Controversy section mentions Sebastian Horsley's refused entry to the USA and implies that the moral turpitude justification rested on his "controled-substance violations", yet such violations do not appear in the table of definitions of moral turpitude. Is the table lacking, or are the reasons for Mr. Horsley being refused entry nothing to do with his drug use? Astronaut (talk) 12:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I looked at the INS statute governing this, and I believe that the spokesperson mispoke. He may have committed a crime of moral turpitude and a seperate crime ivolving controled substance violations. These are seperate issues that allow for expedited removal from the U.S. I suggest the section on Horsley be eliminated because it is misleading. Jumpinbean (talk) 20:29, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Teachers

This article focuses entirely on the issue as it is applied in immigration cases, but says nothing about its application with regard to teachers. I know that in many, if not all, states of the United States, teachers can be dismissed on the grounds of "moral turpitude". I was hoping to find some serious discussion of that in the article, but alas, there is nothing. Cgingold (talk) 14:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Controled substances

As pointed out on this talk page, in the Sebastian Horsley section, the second paragraph of the U.S. Immigration Law section claims "A controled substance violation is a CIMT", while the table below shows no such guidance. I don't know enough about this subject to make the edit presumptively, but I'm inclined to remove the quoted sentence unless anyone has information confirming such violations are a CIMT (in terms of US Immigration Law, or otherwise). Grothmag (talk) 17:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Immigration

8 U.S.C. § 1227(a)(2)(A) says crimes involving moral turpitude can lead to deportation, and that section also has other crimes separately set out as those that can lead to deportation. If a crime is separately set out (e.g. threatening the President, 18 U.S.C. § 871), does that mean it's not a crime involving moral turpitude? Aimbply (talk) 07:42, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Canadian Immigration Law

The remark that moral turpitude is important in Canadian immigration law is, I believe, incorrect (and the citation at the end of the sentence does not refer to Canadian law). The term was removed in the 1976 Immigration Act (which itself was superseded by the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act of 2002). I would recommend reading the current act, in which the term moral turpitude is not used — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.101.13.22 (talk) 03:50, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

References

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2020 use as claims of use for censorship

"Publishers Weekly commented:

Until recently, the term ‘moral turpitude’ is not one that crossed the lips of too many people in book publishing. But Bill O’Reilly, Milo Yiannopoulos, Sherman Alexie, Jay Asher, and James Dashner changed all that…. A legal term that refers to behavior generally considered unacceptable in a given community, moral turpitude is something publishers rarely worried themselves about. No longer.

Here is an excerpt of a morality clause:

In the event that Author is publicly accused …"

https://areomagazine.com/2020/07/18/are-calls-for-open-debate-too-little-too-late/

Let us add it as a claim. Zezen (talk) 09:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

ESTA form

The ESTA form actually asks about "serious damage" and "serious harm".

This is actually quite orthogonal to "moral turpitude". Stealing a newspaper is a crime of moral turpitude but clearly is not "serious harm". Involuntary manslaughter is "serious harm" but not "moral turpitude".

Should this be mentioned? I don't think I'm in a position to develop this.

Uncriticalsimon (talk) 01:28, 28 January 2022 (UTC)