Talk:Manon Melis/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Sportsfan77777 (talk · contribs) 03:08, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I'll resort to reviewing this Feyenoord player. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:08, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much for taking the time to deal with my poor prose. I do think I learn from your comments, so they are very much appreciated!

Lead

• If she is currently a football manager, that should be part of the first sentence.
• Maybe the "all-time top goal scorer" should be the second sentence? (Someone else has just made that change.)
• She had one-year spells with the Swedish teams Linköpings and Göteborg. <<<=== short spells? the second one was for more than a year I think? Also, I would put the "also" in this sentence instead of the previous one.
• Three times she was crowned the Damallsvenskan top scorer ===>>> Three times she was the Damallsvenskan top scorer (I would assume "crowned" is too informal)
• first major finals ===>>> first major tournament (I think?)
• At the final group game ===>>> In the final group game
• In a penalty shoot-out against France, she scored, as did enough of her teammates to progress. In the semi-final they were eliminated by England. <<<=== Rephrase this. The middle is awkward.
• I feel like the Euro 2009 description is burying the lead
• Melis currently is manager women's football development at Feyenoord ===>>> Melis has been the manager of women's football development at Feyenoord since ???? (see MOS:RELTIME)
• Relatedly, is that above sentence up-to-date?
• She is the daughter of former Feyenoord player Harry Melis. ===>>> Her father is former Feyenoord player Harry Melis.

All done

Early life

• girls team ===>>> girls' team
• Girls playing football was still unusual (add "at the time")
• her colleagues at the senior national team ===>>> her teammates on the senior national team
• boys teams ===>>> boys' teams
• When growing up ===>>> When growing up,

All done

RVVH

• Add at least one date and age to this section.
• the club's only women's team <<<=== Just checking: With regard to "only", did they have more than one men's team?

Yes, at least 10 men's teams.

• the drop in level affected their motivation <<<=== "negatively affected"?
• highest amateur league of women's football in the Netherlands <<<=== You can also name it as the Hoofdklasse.

All done

Be Quick

• Melis had an offer to play in the German Frauen-Bundesliga, for Duisburg. She declined the offer. ===>>> Melis had an offer to play in the German Frauen-Bundesliga for Duisburg, but declined.
• Her dream was to be able to fully focus on football, but this offer meant she had to find other work as well, which, unable to speak German fluently, seemed daunting. ===>>> Her dream was to be able to fully focus on football, but this offer meant she had to find other work as well, which seemed daunting because she was unable to speak German fluently.
• Zwolle being too far to commute to daily from Ridderkerk, she rented a room in Zwolle. <<<=== I don't think that's what the source is saying. Even if it was though, it seems normal for players to move to the city where they are playing, and wouldn't usually be worth mentioning.

Commute point removed. Other points done as well.

Malmo

• champions Umeå IK <<<=== add "defending" or "reigning"
• She joined teammates <<<=== This sounds like they were already her teammates before, which I don't think is the case? Something like "Among the other players on the team were" better
• in the pursuit of the 2007 title of the 12-teams league. <<<=== keep the "twelve-team league" somewhere (maybe after "finished in fourth place"), but you already said to challenge for the title (and also, they are obviously trying to win...)

OK, done, but please check.

• Umeå won the league. ===>>> Umeå repeated as champions.
• Melis scored a crucial goal in a heated match with Umeå, in which Brazilian star Marta was shown a red card. The match ended in a 2–2 draw. <<<=== "crucial" makes it sound like she scored the second tying goal; be more specific. Also, "heated" is not encyclopedic enough.

I integrated the 2-2 draw from the next sentence and changed it to first equiliser goal. Is this better?

• a fourth consecutive title ===>>> their fourth consecutive title
• behind the winner ===>>> behind Umeå
• Melis shared the league's top scorer spot that season with Marta, each scoring 23 goals. ===>>> Melis shared the league's top scorer spot that season with Marta, with each of them scoring 23 goals.
• legendary Brazilian football star <<<=== both "legendary" and "star" is too much WP:PUFFERY
• Melis played 20 games in which she scored 10 goals. ===>>> Melis played 20 games, scoring 10 goals.
• Despite a notable series <<<=== "span" or "stretch" instead of "series" (which can mean something else)
• Despite a notable series early on in the season in which Malmö scored seven goals three games in a row, with Melis scoring a hat-trick in one of them, they finished in fourth place, as Linköpings took the title. <<<=== split this sentence in two
• Linköping ===>>> Linköpings
• third round of the domestic cup, Svenska Cupen Damer ===>>> third round of Svenska Cupen Damer, the domestic cup.
• was crowned Damallsvenskan 2010 top scorer. ===>>> was the 2010 Damallsvenskan top scorer.
• ahead of number two ===>>> ahead of the second-place team
• thus securing a place in the 2011–12 UEFA Women's Champions League <<<=== this is because they won the league, not because of how many points they won the league by.
• 5–3 defeat of Göteborg ===>>> 5–3 victory over Göteborg ("defeat" sounds like too much of the opposite to a "win" later in the sentence)
• old rivals Umeå ===>>> previous rivals Umeå
• a crucial goal in a 2–1 win ===>>> the opening goal in a 2–1 win
• In the quarter-finals Örebro eliminated Malmö ===>>> Malmö were eliminated Malmö in the quarter-finals by the eventual winners Örebro. (too many sentences in a row starting with "In the")
• sponsor funds, which is needed to attract new stars. ===>>> sponsor funds needed to attract new stars.
• It was a simple tap-in when the ball rebounded off the cross-bar from a Sarah Storck shot ===>>> It was a simple tap-in goal after a Sarah Storck shot rebounded off the cross-bar.
• cross-bar <<<=== no dash
• Kristianstad ===>>> Kristianstads (I think? Is this on purpose?)
• where Malmö won both ===>>> whereas Malmö won both
• , in Italy against Tavagnacco ===>>> in Italy against Tavagnacco
• This meant Malmö progressed ===>>> As a result, Malmö progressed
• scheduled for March 2012 ===>>> scheduled for March 2012 after Melis left the team.

All done

Sky Blue

• scrambling to find a new club. ===>>> in need of a new club.

Done. Taking a little break now.

Linköpings

• In February 2012, Melis returned to the Damallsvenskan and signed for Linköpings
• She was assigned the jersey number 9 <<<=== state that this was a switch from her jersey number 14 at Malmo.
• A 2–1 defeat at the hands of Kristianstad in an early round meant that Melis again did not see success in the domestic cup ===>>> Melis again did not see success in the domestic cup as Linköpings lost in an early round 2–1 to Kristianstad. (not a good transition from the previous sentence about the league.)
• her old teammates ===>>> her former team
• equally unsuccessful ===>>> also unsuccessful
• She provided an assist to Jonna Andersson who put Linköpings ahead. But Malmö fought back and, mostly due to a hat-trick by German international Anja Mittag, won 3–5. ===>>> Although she then assisted a goal by Jonna Andersson that put Linköpings ahead, Malmö came from behind to win 5–3 mostly due to a hat-trick by German international Anja Mittag.
• Linköping ===>>> Linköpings
• now with Marta ===>>> who acquired Marta

All done

Malmö

• A 3–2 away win over defending champions Tyresö was a turning point for the club's season, although with about 20 minutes to go and one player and 2–1 down a win seemed unlikely <<<=== Rephrase. The second clause doesn't fit too well.
• she scored the opening goal in front of over 2,500 spectators ===>>> Melis scored the opening goal in front of over 2,500 spectators
• this time the champions, Malmö, were already known by the final match of the year ===>>> Malmö had already secured the championship before the final match of the year.
• With the score still 1–1 and just 16 minutes left to play, Melis, Ramona Bachmann and Therese Sjögran were brought on, but to no avail.[72] Nevertheless <<<=== This doesn't seem worth mentioning, as it had no impact on the league outcome and the game itself was not important.

I removed the whole match. All done

Göteborg

• Melis was offered a lucrative contract from Kopparbergs/Göteborg FC she could not refuse ===>>> Melis was offered and accepted a lucrative contract from Kopparbergs/Göteborg FC
• a 3–1 defeat at the hands of her old club Linköping, which meant she again was knocked out of the domestic cup early. ===>>> a 3–1 defeat to her old club Linköping, thus again exiting the domestic cup early.
• twice on an assist ===>>> two goals on assists
• having linked up for years at ===>>> having been linked up for years on

that is a bit too passive I think. How about this: the team benefitted from Melis and Martens linking up for many years at the Netherlands national team

• held up the ball for an extra second ===>>> would hold up the ball for an extra second
• lost sight of second place ===>>> lost second place to Örebro.
• This meant that Rosengård and Örebro qualified for the 2015 Champions League (add ", while Göteborg did not.")
• Her old club Rosengård again won the title on the last day of the season in front of season record audience of 4,225 fans. <<<=== The specifics of how they won the title do not seem related to Melis.

I was trying too hard to sprinkle audience numbers in throughout the article. Removed. All done.

Reign

• hoodie ===>>> a hoodie
• at the hands of Melis's old club Sky Blue ===>>> to Melis's old club Sky Blue
• on US soil ===>>> in the United States
• five goals in five consecutive matches ===>>> five goals in five matches
• the leading scorer ==>>> and was the leading scorer
• she announced she had decided ===>>> Melis announced she had decided

All done

Early

• After having represented ===>>> Having represented
• The context isn't set up well. It should say something like she was first called up when the Dutch were in the middle of UEFA Women's Euro 2005 qualifiers, and it should state somewhere that they were in a double round robin group.

I tried something. Have a look.

• In her fourth cap she was in the starting line-up, in a friendly against England. ===>>> She appeared in the starting line-up for the first time in her fourth cap, a friendly against England.
• The Dutch failed to qualify for Euro 2005; Denmark and Norway advanced. <<<=== You can group this with the rest of the Euro 2005 sentences, even if it is out of order.
• all their eight ===>>> all of their eight
• , securing the Dutch to progress ===>>> to ensure that the Dutch progressed
• both legs of the tie ===>>> both legs of their play-off tie
• At the finals <<<=== I had this question in the lead as well: Is the post-qualifying part really referred to as the finals?

Informally it is, I think, but I have changed it to the more formal tournament

• You never stated that they beat Ukraine
• 2–1 defeat ===>>> 2–1 loss (It's not clear who was defeated)
• the better of the play <<<=== what does this mean: more possession? more shots? more attacking chances? outplayed in general?

There are no stats, but the report describes more attacking chances for Denmark and outplaying the Dutch in general. Goals scored against the run of play. How about this: Despite Denmark having more attacking chances and outplaying the Dutch, goals by Smit and Melis sent them through to the quarter-finals with a 2–1 win.

• she singled out this goal as the most special one of all her goals for the national team ===>>> Melis singled out this goal as the most special of all her goals for the national team
• In extra time she almost ===>>> In extra time Melis almost (I think Melis?)
• almost found the target with a curling drive ===>>> almost scored with a curling drive, but missed the net.
• but her header just went wide ===>>> with a header but it went just wide.
• Then nerves kicked in and the next five players all failed to convert <<<=== I doubt it's fair to say all five players missed because of nerves.

Removed nerves

• nearly got on a long through ball ===>>> was nearly on the receiving end of a long through ball
• Jill Scott's shot ===>> a Jill Scott header

All done

Middle

• had to best ===>>> had to win a group with
• A draw and a defeat against England ===>>> A draw and a loss in their two matches against England
• the rebound when Martens hit the cross-bar but failed ===>>> a rebound when Martens hit the cross-bar
• cross-bar <<<=== no dash
• as did Koster and Sherida Spitse at the end of the game ===>>> and Koster and Sherida Spitse also missed chances at the end of the game

Done

Late

• Identify Norway as the eventual group winners
• kept the Netherlands at bay before attacking in waves ===>>> kept the Netherlands from scoring before attacking repeatedly.
• hosts Canada lead 1–0 ===>>> the hosts Canada led 1–0
• A defeat would have sent the Dutch home. ===>>> The Dutch needed a draw to advance.
• dying minutes of the game ===>>> last minutes of the game
• In March 2016, the Dutch failed to qualify for the 2016 Olympics. <<<=== You should mention (and link) that there was a qualifying tournament, especially since there wasn't one for the 2012 Olympics.
• won 136 caps ===>>> earned 136 caps
• quit professional football ===>>> retired from professional football

Done

Manager

• She currently is manager women's football development at Feyenoord ===>>> She has been the manager of women's football development at Feyenoord since ????
• 2021—2022 season ===>>> 2021–2022 season (wrong dash)

Done

Style of play

• observed his daughter run ===>>> observed that his daughter would run
• and assists ===>>> and the ability to set up goals with assists
• teammate at both the national team and ===>>> her teammate both on the national team

Done

Personal

• Her husband Ties Theeuwkens could be mentioned, as he has a Wikipedia page.

Done

Statistics

• Okay.

Honours

• Every line should have a colon (:) before the year list.
• all-time goalscorer ===>>> all-time top goalscorer

Done

Overall

• I'd suggest adding the year ranges to the club sub-section headers. In particular, that would solve the issue of two of the sections having the same name, which you're not supposed to do.
• Relatedly, you could note the key tournaments in the sub-section headers of the international career section.

You mean something like: Early years (Euro 2005 qualification, World Cup 2007 qualification, Euro 2009)? That seems a bit too long. Or do you mean Early years (2005–2009)?

• A common issue noted above is some of the writing does not seem encyclopedic enough. (e.g. "crowned", "at the hands of", "US soil", "dying minutes", "could not refuse")

Thank you for catching those. I think I have fixed them all.

Most of the relevant info seems to be in the article, except for a few places where the context could be improved. The main issues are with word choice, but there aren't any major issues. Placing on hold. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 08:35, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much for taking the time and putting up with my dubious word choice and grammar. I believe I have addressed all your points, but do take a look at the changes I made, especially the one I pointed out above. Edwininlondon (talk) 16:21, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Outside comment here (stumbling upon this from the WP:FOOTBALL open tasks list). Please change all standalone occurrences of "Linköpings" (i.e. when not writing "Linköpings FC") to "Linköping". The ending s on the city name is the possessive form in Swedish, and is tied to including the suffix "FC". An all too common mistake when writing Swedish club names in English. :) – Elisson • T • C • 21:12, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much for educating me. I have changed all Linköpings, as well as a few stray others such as Kristianstadts. Thanks! Edwininlondon (talk) 16:46, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out, Johan Elisson! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:47, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

• With regard to the international section headers, I meant more of picking one or two of the tournaments or accomplishments as a highlight (for example, "Early years: Euro 2009 semi-final" for the first one, since that was their only major tournament in that section), while keeping it not too long like you said. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
• Overall, it looks like it's in good shape! I made a few small tweaks, feel free to look those over. Other than that, passing! Very well done! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much for taking the time and all your suggestions. It is in a much better shape thanks to you! Edwininlondon (talk) 11:30, 6 May 2021 (UTC)