Talk:Majestic 12 (Deus Ex)

One more thing needed to complete the article, the MJ-12 logo from the game (like the one in the terminals), any ideas?-Dynamo_ace

I'm on it :D--Codenamecuckoo 17:45, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

MIB

I cleaned some stuff up about the MIBs. I don't know where in the game it suggests they have gray skin in relation to the grays, since there are several memos that mention their albino skin and the subsequent garb. They are not androids, because they are the series of augmented/engineered humans that follows the nanotech Dentons. From one of the memos:

The Series P trials have so far produced excellent results, and I continue to believe that our physiopharmaceutical approach to agent augmentation to be superior to mechanical augmentation - and possibly even equivalent to nanotech augmentation - at a fraction of the cost and effort.

And...

We're continuing in our attempts to isolate the source of the albino traits, but so far the simple addition of sunglasses and dark clothing appear to have resolved the problem in a practical fashion.--4.254.115.103 03:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• I thought they were androids till I fought them they bleed plus though I thout they were reffering to JC after all he wears sunglasses and dark clothing. Jamhaw 16:27, 22 February 2007 (UTC)jamhaw

Series P does not stand for Physiopharmaceutical!

Series P, N and L are different types of MIBs, not augmented agents. We can read:

Key features from the Series N agent will also be carried over, including the self-termination mechanism. (...) If mortally wounded, the mechanism will activate and explode, eliminating any evidence of the agent and damaging nearby hostiles.

Nanotech agents don't explode when killed.

And one more word about the commandos. They're just wearing battle armors, instead of being augmented:

You were asking for the specs of our new commando units this morning, so I've attached the relevant files. The short version is that most of the improvement in combat effectiveness comes from enhancements to their power armor developed here and in our labs in Zurich.

I'd edit it myself, but I don't want to rewrite entire article. --84.40.192.172 19:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Your conclusions are the result of logical fallacy. When you quoted that text, you left out a critical part of it which explains that the Series P's killswitch is a variation of the series N killswitch. The variation includes the killswitch being activated upon recieving a mortal wound. The variation of the killswitch may or may not include the explosion--since we've never seen a nanotech agent's slow-acting killswitch actually work, we have no way of knowing if it causes an explosion or not. Nanotech agents are, indeed, "Series N" agents. What Series L refers to is kind of ambiguous, but I think it may refer to mechanically augmented agents like Gunther and Anna.

As for the commandos being augmented, I doubt that they are augmented, but it certainly is possible. We really have no way of knowing. "Commando units" might mean some kind of powered armour, but it could just as easily refer to mechanical augmentations.

As for your assertion that P does not stand for physiopharmaceutical? I can't help but notice that this claim lacks an argument or any supporting evidence, as does the idea that there are three types of MiBs. The only "types" I've ever encountered are the males and the females. They're all pretty much identical.MVMosin 15:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Logical fallacy? I don't think so.

First thing, the game strictly separates the terms of killswitch (chemical or nanotech, activated by radio or sth), killphrase (explosive, activated by voice) and self-terminating mechanism (explosive, activated by agent's death). If nanotech agents really have explosives in them, why didn't UNATCO blow it immediately after the rebellion of Paul and JC?

The modified explosive self-termination switch added in Series N has also proven highly effective in eliminating all traces of the Series P in the event that they are mortally wounded or otherwise unable to complete their mission objectives.

This quote states clearly, that the mechanism (explosive) was introducted in Series N agents. Even if JC and Paul had it, Gunther and Anna should not. And, as we all know, mechanical agents explode on death similarly to MiBs. Another quote:

The Series P Agents are the logical continuation of research resulting from the Series N: the development of a human agent with enhanced capabilities and absolute loyalty, but without the non-standard appearance of mechanical augmentation or the unpredictability of nano-augmentation.

The conclusion is simple: Series N agents were designed to be more predictable than the nanotech guys. Do you still call it a lack of evidence?

And for the commandos - yes, we can't know for sure if they are really augmented. But mentioning about their augmentation (absolutely no proof) in the encyclopedia and not mentioning about their power suits is an exaggeration. --84.40.192.172 20:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

BTW, I've edited the MJ12 Commando part. I think, it's turn to the better. --84.40.192.172 19:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Monster edit.

I just added a ton of content to the article. A lot of it is speculation, but if we cut everything out that wasn't speculation to some degree or another, this article would be a stub.

On that note, I added a make-shift "tag" to the top of the article, explaining that definite conclusions are a rarity in Deus Ex, and that the plot information would inevitably include speculation. I also made sure that all speculation in the article was open, so as to avoid presenting any theories as facts. Even things that are outright said to be facts within in-game text, for example, that the P in Series P stands for physiopharmaceutical, were presented as theories because nothing is necessarily what it claims to be in the world of Deus Ex.

Presenting it as theory in the article doesn't change anything, though; we all know it's the truth.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I really added a lot to the article, and it needs some serious copy-editing. Just a little formating, really, to keep it from being a Great Wall of China of Text.

One problem I really don't want to deal with after that monster of a revision, is that, when the article discussed the artificially produced organisms like Greasels, I expanded on this to include JC, Paul, and Alex Denton, as there is reasonable evidence to believe that Majestic 12 created all three of them. Still, though, I didn't state it as fact, only as theory.

Well, naturally, giving background on the Dentons required a mention of the Series P. So here's the problem... That information does tie in to that general region of the article, though it needs some serious formatting. However, there's another section devoted to the MiBs. I don't think it would hurt to repeat the information that's relating the Series Ps to the Series Ns in the section about the Series Ps. Right? It would be a little redundant but provide different contexts about the same subjects.MVMosin 15:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, I examined the word physiopharmaceutical, mentioned that it isn't a real word, and then linguistically cut it in two. I then left the possible meaning of the word open for reader speculation by... Well, by telling the truth. I just said that it's impossible to determine the meaning of the word in relation to actual Series P agents without gaining further context on them and/or the origin of the word.MVMosin 15:51, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to tell you this, because it looks like you've put a great deal of effort into editing, but the section starting from "This information would be thought to shed light on the nature of the series P agents..." and ending at " ...which, if any, applies is impossible without some other context." was one of the most painfully drawn out admissions of lacking information I've read in a very, very long time. You spent lines and lines of text telling the reader you basically don't know what the word mean, or even what the word could potentially mean despite grammatical parsing. Being a bit more succinct can't hurt.

Also, paragraph breaks, please!

154.20.115.35 05:21, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't just one drawn out admission of ignorance. It was an admission of ignorance that included speculation as to possibilities. As for paragraph breaks, yes, you're absolutely right. I will edit accordingly the first change I get. MVMosin 23:24, 9 April 2007 (UTC)