Talk:Macedonian Slavs/More comments

Comments moved from Talk:Macedonian Slavs#Party's over

In other words, to use the NPOV wording that Britannica uses. Thank you Zocky. Not that Δεαθήναι cares what NPOV is; all he/she wants to do is force his Greek extremist POV on to us! REX 21:42, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Ντικ, μωρή!--Theathenae 21:45, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

It seems that our homophobic friend Δεαθήναι is obsessed with certain issues. What? Has he just found the door to his closet? Also, Ethnologue, Britannica, Hutchinson etc call these people Macedonians. Just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean that it can't be NPOV. The world is not made to please you Δεαθήναι! REX 22:03, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

OK, after the discussion went really off topic, we seem to be focused again. There is a clear policy (or guideline) on this matter (Wikipedia:Naming conflict), and I'm repeating it for the millionth time:

Where self-identifying names are in use, they should be used within articles. Wikipedia does not take any position on whether a self-identifying entity has any right to use a name; this encyclopedia merely notes the fact that they do use that name.

Bear in mind that Wikipedia is descriptive, not prescriptive. We cannot declare what a name should be, only what it is. Suppose that the people of Maputa oppose the use of the term "Cabindan" as a self-identification by another ethnic group. In this instance, the Cabindans use the term in a descriptive sense: that is what they call themselves. The Maputans oppose this because they believe that the Cabindans have no moral or historical right to use the term. They take a prescriptive approach to the term, arguing that it should not be used.

Wikipedia should not attempt to say which side is right or wrong. However, the fact that the Cabindans call themselves Cabindans is objectively true – both sides can agree that this does in fact happen – whereas the claim that the Cabindans have no moral right to that name is purely subjective and is not a question that Wikipedia can, or should, decide.

But not only it is a self-identifying term, all encyclopedias refer to this ethnic group as "Macedonians" (except MSN Encarta), all international organisations refer to this ethnic group as "Macedonians", most media outlets refer to it as "Macedonians". Moreover, you have the BBC who officially apologizes for using the term. All non-Greek participants in the discussion see no reason for the use of the "Macedonian Slavs" label.

Now, could ANYONE please explain me why the heck are we still using the term Macedonian Slavs?!? I mean, yes I should stay cool but this absurd situation lasts too long. We are not discussing Theory of relativity, damn it, it is as clear as day that virtually everybody uses the term "Macedonians". But no! Britannica, and all the other encyclopedias use this term for convenience, BBC apologized for using "Macedonian Slavs" because of courtesy, the Greek Helsinki Watch refers to them as "ethnic Macedonians" (well there wasn't a Greek explanation for this, I guess its because the Greek Helsinki Watch is doing it because of ignorance)... I mean, even if God himself would say this ethnic groups name is Macedonians, he'll probably get accused of Slav propaganda.

The key question is: Why doesn't anybody move this article to Macedonians (people) or a similar name, right now? (Hell, I guess I'd be labeled a racist if I try to do this) Or: Why aren't we at Mediation at the moment? --FlavrSavr 00:42, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

We are not at Mediation at the moment because the Greeks fear it so. They are aware of the proverb: He who comes to equity must come with clean hands. REX 09:57, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't think we need mediation. The article is fine as it is.--Theathenae 10:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

No it isn't. It's POV that's why it shall be changed. Mediation shall be requested. I know you are afraid because you are in the wrong and I (and Britannica) are right. REX 11:05, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

But of course, young Rexhep. You are always right. Και μετά ξύπνησες.--Theathenae 11:07, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Thou canst sneer Δεαθήναι, but facts are facts. Britannica is NPOV whereas you are POV. REX 11:09, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

It's Θεαθήναι, matey. Get it right for a change and stop making a fool of yourself with your inability to distinguish between the voiced dental fricative and its voiceless counterpart. It shouldn't be that difficult for you, being Albanian and all.--Theathenae 11:12, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

It seems that Theathenae is trying to evade the issues by changing the subject. The tactics are well known. Given that there is no reason whatsoever not to request Mediation it shall be requested in due course. Next! REX 11:17, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Let's get back to the subject then, shall we? I must say I am astounded at how easily you change your mind. As recently as the 8^th of September you "happened... to believe that these people should be called Macedonian Slavs rather than just Macedonians because the latter is very misleading, unlike the former."[1] Are you always this fickle? And, more importantly, does your new friend User:FlavrSavr know about your formerly held non-kosher views?--Theathenae 11:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Mais oui! That is not relevant. As the Rebbinical leaders of the Temple is Jerusalem used to say although he has sinned, he is still a Jew. REX 11:38, 30 September 2005 (UTC)