Talk:List of places in Cieszyn Silesia

disambiguation

Interestingly, there are several pairs (separated by the new border) of places with the same names in all three languages:

Kończyce Wielkie	Kunčice	Groß-Kuntschitz / –Kunzendorf
Kończyce Małe	Kunčičky	Klein-Kuntschitz
Leszna Górna	Horní Líštná	Ober-Lischna
Zabłocie	Záblatí	Zablacz

The state (and thus the local official language) determines which form of the name gets the link; is that enough disambiguation, or should these pairs be further marked somehow? For that matter, is the significance of the link-placement obvious to the reader? —Tamfang (talk) 07:16, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Polish Kończyce Wielkie, Kończyce Małe and Zabłocie always were and still are completely diferent villages than Kunčice, Kunčičky and Záblatí. Those first are all seperate municipalities in Poland whereas the others were incorporated as districts/parts into Ostrava and Bohumin. There is also a former village of Krasna, now a district of (Polish) Cieszyn different that Krásna from Czech side. I think that all those should have different positions on the list just like now it is for Łazy and Lazy (Orlová) to not confuse the reader, and I also think they should be somehow more distinguished in brackets. Leszna Górna/Horní Líštná was the one and only village till 1920, then the part on Czech side was incorporated into Třinec/Trzyniec. The same with Puńców/Puncov, but first the part on Czech side was renamed to Český Puncov exactly like Český Těšín, but the latter has different position than Cieszyn so I think Český Puncov AND Horní Líštná also should distinguished from Leszna Górna and Puńców. D_T_G (PL) 15:06, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Zabłocie (Pol)	Záblatí	Zablacz
Zabłocie	Záblatí (Cz)	Zablacz

My question is not "are they different places" (I said that they are) nor "should they be listed separately" (the real list does separate them; I combined them here to save space). My question is whether there ought to be some explicit marking of the distinction, as shown at right, or are they distinguished enough already (in the real table, not the one above here). —Tamfang (talk) 07:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

My opinion is that there ought to be some explicit marking of the distinction, as shown at right. D_T_G (PL) 11:01, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I updated a bit the list on Polish wiki - I think such disambiguation would also fit here, wouldn't it be good to have ability to sort it by country? D_T_G (PL) 06:09, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

German names 1910

All the names from Die Ergebnisse der Volkszählung vom 31. Dezember 1910 in Schlesien, I counted 213 places in Cieszyn Silesia, from those 44 having additional statistical sub-places (in brackets), missing in the list any? D_T_G (PL) 08:05, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Städte mit eigenem Statute

Bielitz Stadt (Innere Stadt, Nieder Dorstadt, Ober Dorstadt, Saybuscher Dorstadt) · Friedek Stadt

Politischer Bezirk Bielitz Land

• Gerichtsbezirk Bielitz (Ohne stadt)

Alexanderfeld · Alt-Bielitz · Batzdorf · Bistrai · Braunau · Czechowitz (Czechowitz, Mückendorf, Renardowitz) · Dziedzitz · Ellgoth · Ernsdorf (Mittel Ernsdorf, Nalensch, Nieder Ernsdorf, Ober Ernsdorf, Pelchrim, Saint-Genois) · Heinzendorf · Kamitz (Kamitz, Ober Ohlisch) · Nieder Kurzwald (Franzfeld, Nieder Kurzwald) · Ober Kurzwald · Lobnitz · Matzdorf · Nikelsdorf (Nikelsdorf, Nieder Ohlisch) · Zabrzeg ·

• Gerichtsbezirk Schwarzwasser

Bonkau (Bonkau, Rychuld) · Chybi · Drahomischl (Drahomischl, Knaj) · Fröhlichhof · Illownitz · Landek · Mnich · Ochab (Gross Ochab, Klein Ochab) · Pruchna · Riegersdorf (Larischau, Riegersdorf) · Schwarzwasser Stadt (Burgrecht, Schwarzwasser) · Zablacz · Zaborz (Uchylany, Zaborz) · Zarzicz · Zbitkau ·

• Gerichtsbezirk Schwarzwasser

Baumgarten · Bielowitzko · Nieder Bladnitz · Brenna · Godzischau · Golleschau · Grodzitz · Gross Gurek · Klein Gurek · Harbutowitz · Hermanitz · Iskrzyczyn · Kisielau · Kitschitz · Kostkowitz (Kostkowitz, Samlowetz) · Kowali · Nieder Kozakowitz · Ober Kozakowitz · Lazy · Lippowetz · Lonczka · Miendzyswietz · Nierodzim (Ober Bladnitz, Nierodzim) · Perstetz · Pogorz · Rostropitz · Schimoradz · Skotschau Stadt · Swientoszuwka (Bierau, Swientoszuwka) · Ustron M. · Weichsel (Tokarnia, Weichsel) · Wieszczont · Willamowitz · Wislitz · Zeislowitz (Gross Zeislowitz, Klein Zeislowitz) ·

Politischer Bezirk Freistadt

• Gerichtsbezirk Freistadt

Albersdorf · Altstadt · Darkau · Dittmannsdorf (Dittmannsdorf, Konkolna) · Dombrau M. · Freistadt Stadt (Bonkau, Freistadt, Miserau, Neustadt, Spluchau, Widmuchau) · Karwin M. (Karwin, Solza) · Katschitz (Ottrembau, Nieder Katschitz, Ober Katschitz) · Gross Kuntschitz (Gross Kuntschitz, Rudnik) · Klein Kuntschitz · Lazy · Lonkau · Marklowitz (Nieder Marklowitz, Ober Marklowitz) · Orlau M. · Petrowitz · Piersna · Poremba · Roj · Seibersdorf (Nieder Seibersdorf, Ober Seibersdorf) · Steinau · Mittel Suchau · Nieder Suchau (Kasparkowitz, Nieder Suchau) · Ober Suchau · Zawada ·

• Gerichtsbezirk Oderberg

Deutschleuten · Oderberg Stadt (Oderberg Stadt, Pudlau) · Peterswald · Polnischleuten · Reichwaldau · Schönichel (Kopitau/Kopytów/Kopytov, Schönichel) · Skrzeczon (Nikeltaff ad Neudorf, Skrzeczon) · Wilmersdorf · Wirbitz · Zablacz ·

Politischer Bezirk Friedek Land

• Gerichtsbezirk Friedek Land (Ohne Stadt)

Althammer · Altstadt · Bartelsdorf · Baschka · Bludowitz, Mittel · Bludowitz, Ober · Brusowitz · Ober Dattin · Dobrau · Ober Ellgoth · Unter Ellgoth · Janowitz · Kaniowitz · Krasna · Gross Kunzendorf · Leskowetz (mit Lipina=Karlshütte) · Lubno · Malenowitz · Morawka · Neudorf · Noschowitz · Pazdierna (Neuhof, Pazdierna) · Pražma · Pržno · Raschkowitz · Rattimau · Rzepischt (Rakowetz, Rzepischt, Winohrad) · Schönhof · Sedlischt · Skalitz · Wenzlowitz · Wojkowitz · Žermanitz ·

• Gerichtsbezirk Polnisch Ostrau

Herzmanitz · Hruschau M. · Klein Kuntschitz · Michalkowitz M. · Muglinau · Polnisch Ostrau M. · Radwanitz (Lippina, Radwanitz) ·

Politischer Bezirk Teschen

• Gerichtsbezirk Jablunkau

Bistrzitz · Boconowitz · Bukowetz · Grudek · Istebna · Jablunkau (Biala=Burgrecht, Jablunkau, Pioseczna, Schigla) · Jaworzinka · Karpentna · Koniakau · Koszarzisk · Lischbitz · Ober Lomna · Unter Lomna · Millikau · Mosty · Nawsi · Niedek · Oldrzychowitz · Piosek · Tyra · Wendrin ·

• Gerichtsbezirk Teschen

Bażanowitz · Nieder Bludowitz · Bobrek · Brzezuwka · Nieder Dattin · Dobratitz (Bukowitz, Dobratitz) · Nieder Domaslowitz (Nieder Domaslowitz, Kotzurowitz, Wolowetz) · Ober Domaslowitz · Dzingelau · Cameral Ellgoth · Grodischcz · Gumna · Gutty · Haslach · Hnojnik · Kojkowitz · Konskau · Kotzobendz (Ullodial=Ellgoth, Kotzobendz, Theirgarten) · Krasna (Guldau, Krasna) · Nieder Lischna · Ober Lischna · Mistrzowitz (Koniakau, Mistrzowitz) · Mönichhof · Kończyce · Niebory · Ogrodzon · Pastwisk (Boguschowitz, Kalembitz, Pastwisk) · Pogwisdau (Marklowitz, Pogwisdau) · Punzau · Roppitz · Rzeka · Schibitz (Blogowitz, Schibitz) · Schöbischowitz (Pitrau, Nieder Schöbischowitz, Ober Schöbischowitz) · Schumbarg · Smilowitz (Rakowetz, Smilowitz) · Stanislowitz · Teschen Stadt (Brandeis, Freistädter=Dorstadt, Mühlgraben, Sachsenberg, Steinplatz, Teschen Stadt und obere Dorstadt, Kleine Wiese) · Nieder Tierlitzko · Ober Tierlitzko · Nieder Toschonowitz · Ober Toschonowitz · Trzanowitz (Nieder Trzanowitz, Ober Trzanowitz) · Trzynietz · Trzytiesch · Wielopoli · Zamarsk · Nieder Żukau · Ober Żukau · Zýwotitz ·

Well, if I take your list and crudely delete the names appearing in the German column of our table, I get this: (Innere Stadt, Nieder Dorstadt, Ober Dorstadt, Saybuscher Dorstadt) · Czechowitz (Czechowitz, Mückendorf, Renardowitz) · Dziedzitz · (Nalensch, Pelchrim, Saint-Genois) · (Ober Ohlisch) · Nieder Kurzwald (Franzfeld, Nieder Kurzwald) · Ober Kurzwald · (Nieder Ohlisch) · (Rychuld) · (Knaj) · (Larischau) · (Burgrecht) · (Uchylany) · Grodzitz · (Samlowetz) · (Tokarnia) · (Konkolna) · (Neustadt, Spluchau, Widmuchau) · (Ottrembau) · Marklowitz · · (Kasparkowitz) · Polnischleuten · (Kopytów/Kopytov) · (Nikeltaff ad Neudorf) · Wilmersdorf · Bludowitz, Mittel · Ober Dattin · Ober Ellgoth · Unter Ellgoth · (mit Lipina=Karlshütte) · Lubno · Neudorf · (Neuhof) · Pražma · Pržno · (Rakowetz, Winohrad) · Žermanitz · (Lippina) · (Biala=Burgrecht, Schigla) · Unter Lomna · Bażanowitz · (Bukowitz) · (Kotzurowitz, Wolowetz) · (Ullodial, Theirgarten) · (Guldau) · Mönichhof · Kończyce · Pastwisk (Boguschowitz, Kalembitz, Pastwisk) · (Marklowitz) · (Blogowitz) · (Pitrau) · (Rakowetz) · (Brandeis, Freistädter=Dorstadt, Mühlgraben, Sachsenberg, Steinplatz, Stadt und obere Dorstadt, Kleine Wiese) · Nieder Żukau · Ober Żukau · Zýwotitz —Tamfang (talk) 02:26, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I think those are:

(Innere Stadt - pl:Stare Miasto w Bielsku-Białej, Nieder Dorstadt - pl:Dolne Przedmieście, Ober Dorstadt - pl:Górne Przedmieście w Bielsku-Białej, Saybuscher Dorstadt - pl:Żywieckie Przedmieście) · Czechowitz (Czechowitz - now part of Czechowice-Dziedzice, Mückendorf -?, Renardowitz - Renardowice) · Dziedzitz · (Nalensch, Pelchrim, Saint-Genois - ?) · (Ober Ohlisch - pl:Olszówka (dzielnica Bielska-Białej) within Kamitz/Kamienica) · Nieder Kurzwald - Międzyrzecze Dolne (Franzfeld, Nieder Kurzwald) · Ober Kurzwald - Międzyrzecze Górne · (Nieder Ohlisch - pl:Olszówka (dzielnica Bielska-Białej) - within Nikelsdorf/Mikuszowice Śl.) · (Rychuld - now part of Bąków, Silesian Voivodeship) · (Knaj) · (Larischau) · (Burgrecht) · (pl:Uchylany) · Grodzitz - Grodziec, Silesian Voivodeship · (Samlowetz - Samlowiec in Kostkowice, Cieszyn County) · (Tokarnia) · (Konkolna - cs:Koukolná) · (Neustadt, Spluchau, Widmuchau) · (Ottrembau) · Marklowitz - undivded Dolní Marklovice and Marklowice Górne· (Kasparkowitz) · Polnischleuten - cs:Lutyně · (Kopytov - part of Šunychl, Polish: Kopytów, German: Kapitau) · (Nikeltaff ad Neudorf ?) · Wilmersdorf - Věřňovice · Bludowitz, Mittel - cs:Prostřední Bludovice, Polish Błędowice Średnie · Ober Dattin - cs:Horní Datyně, Polish Datynie Górne · Ober Ellgoth - Vyšní Lhoty · Unter Ellgoth - Nižní Lhoty · (mit Lipina=Karlshütte) - part of cs:Lískovec (Frýdek-Místek): "Vrchnost povolila jistému Jakubovi Halaškovi z Frýdku zřídit si včelín v lese „zvaném Lipina“, který patřil k frýdeckému zámku." · Lubno - cs:Lubno (Frýdlant nad Ostravicí) · Neudorf - cs:Nová Ves (Frýdlant nad Ostravicí)· (Neuhof) · Pražma - Pražmo · Pržno · (Rakowetz, Winohrad - ?) · Žermanitz - Žermanice· (Lippina) · (Biala=Burgrecht, Schigla) · Unter Lomna- Dolní Lomná · Bażanowitz - Bażanowice · (Bukowitz - Czech Bukovice, Polish Bukowice, part of Dobratice) · (Kotzurowitz - Polish Kocurowice, Czech Kocurovice - now part of Lučina (Frýdek-Místek District), Wolowetz - Czech Volovec, part of Dolní Domaslavice) · (Ullodial, Theirgarten) · (Guldau - pl:Gułdowy, part of Cieszyn) · Mönichhof - Polish Mnisztwo, now district of Cieszyn · Kończyce - sorry, my fault, this one is Mosty u Českého Těšína · Pastwisk - Polish Pastwiska, district of Cieszyn (Boguschowitz - pl:Boguszowice (Cieszyn) - district of Cieszyn, Kalembitz - Polish Kalembice also district of Cieszyn, Pastwisk) · (Marklowitz - pl:Marklowice (Cieszyn) - district of Cieszyn) · (Blogowitz - pl:Błogocice (Cieszyn) district of Cieszyn) · (Pitrau - Czech Pitrov, part of Soběšovice) · (Rakowetz - - Polish Rakowiec, now poart of Smilovice (Frýdek-Místek District)) · (Brandeis, Freistädter=Dorstadt, Mühlgraben, Sachsenberg - Polish Saska Kępa, this was a district of pre-1920 Teschen that Český Těšín evolved from, Steinplatz, Stadt und obere Dorstadt, Kleine Wiese) · Nieder Żukau - Dolní Žukov · Ober Żukau - Horní Žukov · Zýwotitz - Životice (Havířov)

Interesting is the use of letter Ž in Żukau, Pražma · Pržno, they really used it in that book. I also wonder where some of the German names of de:Karviná#Ortsteile come from, especially Arnoldsdorf for Doly (Karviná). Here it is listed too: http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/SCI/ortsliste/deu_A-d.html D_T_G (PL) 15:15, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

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