Talk:List of martial arts/Archive 2

Dead links (like this one)

Please do not add these to this list, it is a list of articles that already exist, write the article then add the link by all means, but red links are not helpful as it is difficult if not impossible to asses their notability. Thanks --Nate1481(^t/_c)

America

I don't much like all the South American and Caribbean martial arts being lumped under "American martial arts". It's too chauvinistic. We should separate by continent, North America, South America and the Caribbean. --Mista-X 22:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

It isn't nationalistic at all. The U.S. laying claim to the term American when it applies to any country in the Americas is the problem. But including all under the term actually is the opposite of chauvinsim, as it acknowledges the neutral, correct application of the term. VanTucky ^(talk) 22:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed then. --Mista-X 04:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Americans agreeing on things, isnt the world so much better now... 69.245.80.218 (talk) 03:16, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I note that a native American form of martial arts is not listed, that of "Chulukua" (pronounced Choo-La'-Ka). See http://www.ten-no-kishi.com/aifaa.htm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hendee (talk • contribs) 15:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

NOW!

time to make comparison of martial arts, somebody! -anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.166.235.13 (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

WP:No original research. --Bradeos Graphon 15:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

That almost always devolves into "my style is better than your style" debates anyway... usually followed by agreements to test matches that never end up happening. Let's please keep any "comparison of martial arts" topics OFF of Wikipedia. Simonm223 (talk) 16:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I did a bit of a Judo/BJJ comparison in the BJJ article without any problems. But if you disagree with what I wrote, then I challenge you to a duel with a sharpened biro to settle the issue! (P.S. I'm sure that User talk:58.166.235.13's suggestion was tongue-in-cheek!) --David from Downunder (talk) 07:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

As long as you maintained npov I have no issue with the topic. However it's very hard to maintain npov with comparisson. Simonm223 (talk) 13:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Shoot Wrestling

Shoot wrestling is listed as an American martial art, I'm confused didn't it originate in Japan? So, why is it listed as an American martial art? --Godaiger —Preceding comment was added at 20:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Egypt

• I believe Egypt belongs in the Middle Eastern and Central Asian category, as it is defined in most sources as a Middle Eastern nation, hence why I placed it there. If any editor disagrees with this move, I certainly would like to hear your arguments. Atari400 17:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I moved egypt to Africa, because the page seemed to be organized geographically and not geopolitically. Geopolitically, YES, Egypt is certainly a Middle Eastern country. Geographically, the country is and always has been in AFRICA. Another reason Egypt should be in the African section is that the form of fighting originates among the ancient Egyptians. The Ancient Egyptians were definately Africans not Middle Easterners. We can all debate until our fingers bleed on what kind of African (Berber, Nilotic, etc), but they were Africans and scholars generally agree the civilization was homegrown and not born of some outside migration. Since the ancient Egyptians were african, and the martial art in question originates among them, ---It should be regarded as an African martial art and not a Middle Eastern or Central Asian (where are we getting central asian, btw?) fighting style. Let me know what u think, and thnx for bringing this to the discussion board. CHEERS :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4shizzal (talk • contribs) 00:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I do not doubt that modern Egypt is physically or geographically in Africa(minus the Sinai, which is physically in Asia), and my argument is not about what the Egyptians currently are or were in the past in any sense, nor would I feel I am an expert to discuss such a matter. Rather, this article has a section for the Middle East(or Near East, if you will), and the very phrase the "Middle East" is itself not very geographically descriptive in nature. As it is, the "Middle East" can span three continents depending on how the term is defined. My concern is that the list actually has a section on the Middle East, and thus uses modern geopolitical terminology to define it. To exclude Egypt from the Middle East is akin to excluding the Asiatic Middle Eastern countries as well, and relocating them to Asia. In all honesty, I would prefer that, but I have no doubt that it would be quickly reverted by editors with numerous sources. - On a side not, I have actually witnessed a parade where Egyptian "Stick Fighting" was performed. It was done in a ritual dance performance fashion, and I was told that it had been a part of Egyptian culture for thousands of years. Very interesting to watch. As far as Central Asia is concerned, and the reason I added it a little while ago, has to do with both the nature and history of Martial Art styles in that region, and what is called the Middle East in modern terms. By this I mean the relations between the Central Asia "Stans", Persia and modern Iran, Mongolia, the Caucasus region, Turkey, and even modern day Russia(and even styles from Northern India). So, as it is, lumping the Middle East and Central Asia into one section is as much a result of modern misconceptions as it is of convenience. Atari400 02:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Very valid points. Now that I think of it, I do believe on the CIA World Factbook that Egypt is put in the Middle Eastern section. I guess my only remaining concern is "Where does the Middle East end". Would that include Libya and Algeria, too? But ur absolutely right when u say that the Middle East is not very well defined. I guess the best thing to do is to decide if we are going to classify these martial arts by the nation in which they are practiced (Karate's gonna be a doesey by the way since its so popular) or by its country of origin. I'm open to suggestions and will not make any effort to put Egypt back in the African section after this. I just think that as a practical matter, it would be easier to locate that fighting style (which I admit I didn't know even existed until I found this page) by classifying it in the African section. It's cool u got to see it performed firsthand. I bet the style HAS adopted many near-eastern fighting techniques since the 7th century, but its cool that it still exists at all.Scott Free 19:51, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, you made some excellent points as well, and very I much agree with Egypt's placement in the African section of the list, since it is logical. It is an African nation, many times "lumped" to a very imprecise term called the "Middle East", and with modern linguistic, cultural, and economic ties in both Africa, as well as nearby Asia. I have in fact left it in both the African and Middle Eastern section of the article for now, since a reader might very well look into either section looking for Egypt's listing. By all means, you might want to remove Egypt from the Middle East and Central Asia section, since a double listing does appear rather unnecessary. On a side note, perhaps a West Asia or Southwest Asia section or subsection instead of the Middle East might actually make more sense? Just some ideas to kick around, and that I might try out. Atari400 03:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I saw the "Stick Fighting" performance in 1995 on a trip to Egypt. It was a presentation set up for Western tourists, but still had a very authentic look to it all. I was able to observe the dance performance from a close distance, and the movements were clearly combat related "moves", similar to kata seen in Japanese martial arts. The movements were done as a paraded dance by several performers for the benefit of the tourists, but it was very obviously part of an organized martial art style. It was also rather different from anything I have seen in either Turkey or Iran, which led me to believe the art was locally indigenous to Egypt and Northeast Africa. The question I have is, are there similar styles in the Sudan or the Horn of Africa, as well as other Northern African nations? I would guess that there are similar styles, but I would still like someone knowledgeable to write about on Wikipedia at some point. Atari400 03:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

That was a great idea putting them in both. Thnx for taking care of that. I'll leave it be cuz the solution is very practical (IMO) I read on the page about Egyptian Stick fighting that the weapon they used is similar to one used in Kenya. Make sure to check that out :) HOLLAScott Free 03:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Will do! Atari400 16:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposal: Small Descriptions?

Maybe next to each style could be a brief sentence or two about the style? There are alot of styles with names that give no hint of well, their style. Opinions? --Ekoi (talk) 05:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Good idea, you should do it! Milesrout (talk) 07:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Ares4you (Ares4you) 16:30 17 September 2009

I propose to classify by the reality : is effective in combat or is a fake in real situation. Another way of classification is after his use in war, tactic situations, police training, special forces...

The following martial arts were used in war or by some special forces:Eagle claw, san shou, LATHI, silambam, silat, lerdrit, defendu, la canne, kapap, krav maga, Modern Army Combatives.

We know the efficiency of Cambodian blood sport - bokator ( khmer boxing & khmer Traditional as his ancient forms ), kombatan, jujutsu ( killing without marks ), kyokushin ( his brave warriors from K1 and MMA ) ninjutsu ( from fight science documentary ), krab crabong, muay boran, muai thai, sambo, systema, defendo, Jeet kune do ( for his amaizing concepts witch can change every fighter`s vision after reading ) and the examples can continue...

I want to be more efficient and not to lose my life with in-utile techniques. I don`t have the time to try all mistakes

Capoeira de Angola, in Angola?????

This is an absurd, the one who put Capoeira de Angola in Angola country, does not know anything of martial arts. Capoeira de Angola is a style of Capoeira. It is a very slow motion capoeira and is practiced mainly by old folks. It's a Brazilian martial arts!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.106.75.150 (talk) 18:26, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I removed that part. The Capoeira Angola page in wikipedia itself cites the martial art as being developed in Brazil. It also states that it have been based on N'golo, which could be considered Angolan, but not a martial art. - Smertios (talk) 12:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Kickboxing in Japan

Why are both Japanese Kickboxing and Kickboxing listed under Japan? Kickboxing seems to represent the general sport, not the particular nationality's practice of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.226.212.67 (talk) 23:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Cathegory Okinawa

Okinawa is a part of Japan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.171.249.202 (talk) 14:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

KickBoxing is currently listed under the United Kingdom.--Razionale (talk) 16:54, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Why United Kingdom? I've removed it.--Razionale (talk) 16:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

pehlwani

A few times now I've had to remove Pakwindo because the link is red. Is it still not clear that only styles which link to an article can be listed? I've also removed pehlwani from under India because it's also under Pakistan and no style can be listed more than once. At least that's as far as I understand it since silat and kuntao are listed only as Indonesian martial arts even though they're just as traditional in Malaysia and Singapore. Malla-yuddha is the old Indian style of wrestling while pehlwani aka kusti is the later Mughal-influenced form. Since pehlwani has traditionally been practiced more often by Muslims, I thought it made sense to say it's more Pakistani than Indian. Besides, the list of Indian martial arts is long enough but pehlwani is all Pakistan's got. Morinae (talk) 10:24, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Parkour

I've got to admit that I always thought Parkour was just a sport until I looked it up but that still doesn't make it a martial art. The Parkour article says it addresses the need to escape when faced with a "fight or flight" situation. That puts Parkour in its own category because martial arts are meant for fighting. And I don't know much about Scandinavia but does it really need to be separated from the rest of Europe? Morinae (talk) 09:34, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure "Martial arts are meant for fighting" is technically correct. Several martial arts (like Aikido, for instance) specifically say that avoiding having to fight is a big part of the art. Many forms of Tai Chi also don't appear to be meant for fighting. I have no idea whether Parkour should be considered a martial art or not, mind you, but there does seem to be more under the martial art "umbrella" than just punching dudes in the mouth or putting them in a leglock. At least in theory. --Ashenai (talk) 12:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Surely the term "martial" (of Mars, god of war)denotes a combat system, even if it is for self-defence. Aikido may be considered primarily a defence system but is designed for conflict, utilises weapons (staff, sword) and can be used to inflict damage on an opponent. Likewise,to say certain forms of Tai Chi "don't appear to be meant for fighting" might suggest a lack of knowledge of TC. To my knowledge, the only style which lacks a combat syllabus is Taoist TC, which specifically forbids it. Most (if not all) other systems, whether or not one chooses to study that aspect, contain a combat syllabus. Parkour, however, is not concerned with face to face conflict. If it is to be included as an MA then so should running in general (you run to a battle, you run away from one) (79.190.69.142 (talk) 09:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC))

Near Eastern?

Why is the category listed as Near Eastern rather than Middle Eastern? Near Eastern is an outdated term that hasn't been in popular use since WWII the article on Middle East will confirm that. Livingston 11:51, 3 August 2009 (UTC)