Talk:List of Metalocalypse characters/Archive 1

Archive 1

Page merge

There were way too many pages that listed the exact same things, I merged this and "Recurring Characters in Metalocalypse", as well as "The Band" with "Dethklok".Wikifried 19:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I suggest a name change for this article

It occurs to me that calling this article a "List" is somewhat misleading, as it implies that it is a short, simple... well, list of characters with minimal to no explanation, and perhaps links to individual articles on the characters. This is not the case, as this article is quite long, reasonably fleshed out, and a lot more diverse than a list.

I propose the article be renamed and moved to Characters in Metalocalypse. Thoughts? -- Y|yukichigai 21:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Does it really matter? That name is just two words smaller. It's still a list in either case. Just because it's a list, doesn't mean it can't describe the characters, too. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

There's a stigma of sorts associated with lists, specifically when articles have the title "list" in the name. I'm not sure why exactly, but certain editors (and more disturbingly admins) hear the word "list" and think "that means it's trivia, which means it's non-notable and should be deleted immediately." I'd like to head that off at the pass. -- Y|yukichigai 22:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'll take the fact that the article's name suddenly changed as a vote of approval. ;) -- Y|yukichigai 22:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it looks pretty good as is. 209.129.117.2 07:59, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

You could take it that way. I gave my answer in the summary. It's a reasonable argument. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:01, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Murderface

Under his section it says what real life musicians he resembles. It says he resembles the Bassist from Black Sabbath and, worst of all "That one guy from the Blue Oyster Cult". Someone needs to correct this unless it is suppossed to be a direct quote.Bengaska 17:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I went to look at the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Blue_oyster_cult_8x10_.jpg and I don't think he looks like any of the members of blue oyster cult, and unless I missed it, it's not a quote from the show. I'm just gonna remove the "guy from..." bit

On the subject of Murderface, what exactly is a "strong American accent"? I'm American and most of the time I wish I had subtitles when Murderface talks. I'd call it gibberish at best and just an American accent at worst. --71.121.76.130 18:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

If you take out the lisp Murderface speaks with either a Wisconsin accent or a Minnesotan accent. Note the "curve" in his vowels, particularly the way he says "you". -- Y|yukichigai 19:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I changed the line that said he played Gibson RD bass to say he plays a Thunderbird. It can be clearly seen in the first episode. Ladysway1985 03:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/42514730/

Added Original Research Tag

Do I really need to explain why? Leaving a note of it here anyway, out of courtesy. - 85.210.159.161 23:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you do. Put editor notes by or around everything you think is OR so that the article can be more easily fixed. -- Y|yukichigai 19:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you serious? Virtually everything here is original research. It'd be simpler to make note of what isn't original research, and quite frankly, I can't see anything that meets that description. If you see something in the show you can't just add it as fact, you need to find another source stating what you're trying to add or you have to quote the show verbatim rather than your own conclusions. See a comment I left on the main Metalocalypse discussion a while back: Talk:Metalocalypse#Stop taking the show's dialogue at face value - 81.179.112.29 20:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

To quote Skwisgaar, "this is dildoes." Okay, so then I say we should cite the show, because once it's in the show, it's fact about the character. Would you like me to link to a page that has the episodes up for streaming, so people can go there and verify the information for themselves? -- ModernTenshi04 05:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

It's fine to cite the show, you don't necessarily have to link to a streaming episode either. But you can only state directly what the show is saying and not draw your own conclusions, for example "Skwisgaar also seems to hold little importance on the physical appearance of sexual partners, as he has been seen propositioning an elderly grandmother for sex as well as sleeping with a very obese woman." is original research even though it uses the show as a reference. it's also worth noting that because something happens in the show doesn't necessarily make it a fact in the show's universe, for example you shouldn't be stating that Toki is diabetic when it was just a gag used for one episode. - 85.210.136.151 21:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Ideally every time something is declared as a fact it should be backed up with a reference, so in the instance of "He didn't learn to speak until he was almost five years old. In high school, the only things he was good at were frog dissection and football, so he eventually dropped out and never earned his diploma." you could just add a citation at the bottom of the page specifying the episode this information was taken from (S1E13 - Go Forth And Die). You still might have to tweak a few things however, such as mentioning that this was according to intelligence gathered by the committee. - 85.210.136.151 22:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Please stop removing the requests for citations and the original research disclaimer. On one occasion the reason given for this was "removed excessive fact tags and cut OR, it's really pointless to add a fact tag when it's explained in the next sentence". Please read Wikipedia policy; it's not acceptable to include unsourced statements simply by giving your reasoning behind it; this is precisely what original research is. I really don't know how I can explain this any more clearly. You cannot draw your own conclusions based on events in the show. - 85.210.136.151 19:59, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not original research to give examples from the show. Not a single bit of what you've been fact tagging is assumption. It's mentioned from the show. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:NOR pertains to the act of drawing conclusions from exitant information when those conclusions have not been explictly been put forth elsewhere. The example you listed above ("Skwisgaar also seems to hold little importance...") is a perfect example of Original Research, and to remain in the article it would need to have an external, non-Wiki source. However, noncontroversial facts concerning the article's subject (in this case character background and history) are permitted to be included with no explicit citation specified, indicating that the source is the article's subject (the Primary Source) itself. This is directly per Wikipedia policy.

In short, please stop trying to delete verifiable information. -- Y|yukichigai 21:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Where have I tried to delete verifiable information? All I've done is request that citations are added where necessary. - 85.210.136.151 22:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

You've requested them in several unnecessary points. One example: "Toki often makes statements or is placed in situations with homoerotic subtext through his misunderstanding of English." You've tagged this a number of times when there is no reason to. It is not an opinion nor an analysis, just a fact. It is given several examples to support it, yet you tag it anyway. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

This is exactly the point I was trying to highlight earlier. You can't seem to tell the difference between lifting information directly from the primary source, and taking facts from the show and interjecting your own personal opinion and original research. Didn't you read Yukichigai's comment above, which reiterated this exact point? - 85.210.136.151 22:12, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not an opinion. It happens. It's given several examples. You don't seem to want to tag Muderface's references to piss, yet that's just the same as Toki's misunderstanding. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

The reason I haven't tagged other unsourced statements is because I was first dealing what were the main offenders, most of them have since been removed completely by other editors - presumably because they were completely speculative. Murderface's references to piss also needs a reference, and it's fine to cite the show itself. Take a look at any recently featured article and you'll notice it's rife with references, I find it hard to understand why you seem so opposed to them, - 85.210.136.151 22:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Are those articles about TV shows? It's a different story when dealing with in-universe events. When you say something like "John Smith loves the ladies.", you obviously need a source. Someone could have made that up. In-universe things take their material from the work of fiction itself, and very rarely is there anything else but the work itself to work with. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I just explained (for the upteenth time now) that you can use the show as a source. And it's just as easy to make up non-factual information about a fictional character as it is with a actual person. A lack of third party sources doesn't excuse editors from using citations where necessary. In fact policy is actually more restrictive regarding articles relying primarily on primary sources. "An article or section of an article that relies on primary source should (1) only make descriptive claims the accuracy of which is easily verifiable by any reasonable adult without specialist knowledge, and (2) make no analytic, synthetic, interpretive, explanatory, or evaluative claims. Contributors drawing on entirely primary sources should be careful to comply with both conditions." - 85.210.136.151 22:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately WP policy is unclear on the requirements regarding citations from Primary sources. While a case could be made for citing to specific episodes where the information is presented, an equally strong case could be made for not doing so. My opinion is that citations are unnecessary and detract from the flow of the article when the information is from the primary source, unless the place/episode/etc. in which the information was presented is significant or somehow affects the information. (e.g. an event which occured in an alternate timeline, dream sequence, spinoff media, etc.) -- Y|yukichigai 20:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Resembles...

I see the "resembles <real musicians>" blurbs have been removed. Makes sense with the way things are supposed to be around these parts and stuff, but I really liked them. Makes the show seem more connected to the real Metal scene, the same way "Snicket's dead former lover Beatrice may be a reference to Beatrice Portinari" makes its series seem more like actual literature (first example I found and I guess I'm tired). For those of you less anonymouses, how would you feel about something like this...

Toki Wartooth

Resembles: Varg Vikernes, Mikael Åkerfeldt, Peter Tägtgren

Toki Wartooth is the rhythm guitarist and the second fastest guitarist alive...

... especially if sources or something resembling sources can be found? Eh? Less intrusive than the former format, no?

--71.77.2.198 09:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

If there's evidence that the show's characters are modelled on real musicians then it should be included. - 85.210.136.151 01:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

After watching the episode "Bluesklok," I remembered every member of the band getting horribly burned, including Toki. I figured I remembered wrong when I read that he "tanned" here, but I have recently watched it again, and Toki still looked quite sunburned to me. True, he was a browner shade of red than the rest of the band, but he was still a very intense shade of red. I think the part about Toki tanning should be removed, because I think that is incorrect. So what does everybody else think? Is there anybody else out there that actually thinks Toki tanned?

169.233.10.87 17:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

You can stil get a bad sunburn if you tan, you tan first, but then you get burned. Some people do not tan at all and will get a bad sunburn real fast. I think we should leave it as isR6rome 04:35, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be changed. I watched the episode a few days ago, then came here to read up on the show and noticed the obvious error in the artticle. Toki's skin was just as pink as anyone else's in the episode with the exception of Pickles, who was burned the worst. I made mental note of it because like Toki, I too am Norwegian and naturally on a conscious or subconscious level pay more attention to him...if it showed him tan or unburned I would have called "bs" on the obvious flaw...but ALL the bandmembers were burnt, and Toki was no exception....Thesetrixaintforkids

Who deleted the analogies to real-life musicians!?

I needed to make a reference today about Toki's similarity to some Scandenavian musician who's name I'd never remember on my own, and to my surprise I found it's been taken out of the article... along with ALL the references. Why? They are useful notations to the characters, and they make a good resource for someone who was largely introduced to Metal through Dethklok (like me.) You can't call them all heresay--Nathan Explosion is very obviously based on Glenn Danzig. He says "blacker than the blackest black" in the first episode!

Also come on Nathan's weight (as opposed to Toki's "diabetes") has been mentioned in several episodes (Bluesklok and Go Forth and Die) how is that not worth noting.

I didn't remove them but whoever did was correct to do so. They were speculative, original research and weren't particularly relevant - unless, as you say, the character designers used these real-life musicians as inspiration. However, saying "x is obviously based on x" isn't good enough for what is supposedly an encyclopedia; you need to find sources to back up your claims. - 85.210.43.171 04:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Murderface's resemblance to Geezer seemed pretty obvious, but the rest were suspect. For example, Nathan's supposed resemblance to Danzig and Skwisgaar's to Alexi Laiho-aren't there plenty of tall skinny Europeans with long blonde hair and muscular guys with long black hair in metal bands?--Halloween jack 06:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

To be fair, I thought it was quite possible that the character designers heavily based the characters on some of the real musicians mentioned (e.g. Nathan Explosion on George Fisher). But, like you said, the list was being populated with basically everyone that remotely resembled the character, and until Brendon Small, another creator of the show, or perhaps a critic even, mentions a connection between a character and a real band member it obviously can't be included. - 85.210.43.171 12:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

This is the exact sort of thing WP:NOR was meant to deal with. Until another source mentions some sort of connection or resemblance between the Metalocalypse memebers and actual musicians the information can't really be included. -- Y|yukichigai 21:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Minor change in "The Band"

The end of the introey paragraph said something like "It is unknown how many albums they have made." I changed "made" to "released" as we know that they've made at least seventeen albums--In the second episode (I think? The underwater one) Nathan deletes 'another' album, and then the newsreporter says that Dethklok has recorded sixteen albums, all deleted by Nathan--and at the end of the ep, they release the underwater album (which name escapes me...) so we know they've released at least seventeen--I could probably bump that to eighteen if I wanted to, also, since it's heavily implied they have at least one album released, based on....being successful, and all. the underwater album was called "Dethwater"

Specing deleted

"There are rumors that he is the devil and Dethklok sold their souls to him." was added to the section about dethkloks manager. I removed it, as it's spec'd. Just noting this, because last time I reverted a spec, I got warned for "playing around with the pages" or whatever. Moterola "

Dr. Rockso

Multiple things. First off, I believe his name is spelled incorrectly. I think its Dr. Rockso. And also, there needs to be more pictures of the rock and roll clown. He has been in 3 episodes for gods sake!

I Have Uploaded one photo of Rockso and Changed the spelling form roxo to Rockso.

(I checked on Adultswim.com)

Why does it say that rockso "may have been inspired by Guns N' Roses singer Axl Rose? I do not see the relation between the two. User:Peavey5150 22:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I can see his resemblance to KISS and David Lee Roth, and I agree, the Axl Rose relationship is dead wrong. However, I also think he could be considered a parody of Justin Hawkins, the lead singer of The Darkness. If you watch the music video for "Growing On Me," Hawkins is wearing the exact same one-piece as Rockso does. I thought I'd bring this up on the boards first instead of just changing it willy-nilly. Pepsidude (talk) 21:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the resemblance is more David Lee Roth than anyone else. 72.141.160.63 (talk) 03:08, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Just as a note his name is spelled Rockzo including the z instead of s as does the episode Cleanzo. This is how the [adultswim] website spells it. I will try to fix spelling where appropriate but other please keep an eye out. Dethfan216 (talk) 21:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Under the Description where it refers to the re-apperance of Dr. Rockzo during Snakes n' Barrels II, it mentions his hair is dyed red with blood and chunks of gore from the dead fan who brought in the drugs. I was under the impression his hair was dyed red from the marijuana-laced cherry pie the fan brought in (as Rockzo can be seen digging into the pie before tearing off the woman's black tights). Is there a confirmation on the source of the red hair and chunks? Hellpimp (talk) 18:11, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I just want to state on the record that the semicolon in the first sentence may be the funniest piece of punctuation on Wikipedia, if not the entire English language.Hannibal V Constantine (talk) 19:12, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Face bones

I added a picture of Face bone by Dethklok's manager. But should he get his on paragraph about him?

Not sure on this one. I don't seem to recall that part (perhaps someone can remind me) but if Facebones is actually just an image and voiced by Dethklok's manager, the mascot probably doesn't need much more of a mention than it has now. 209.129.117.2 10:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I see your point maybe if Face bones is in some more eps thx. User:peavey5150 5:27 04 December 2006 (UTC)

I feel like it's worth mentioning, almost purely for the fact that his voice sometimes becomes distorted and demonic when important things are being said. Wikifried 16:44, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Dick Knubbler

I put up a picture for him. Hopefully this character will get some more screen time, he's amusing. MalikCarr 03:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

   Does anyone else think that this character is based on Phil Spector? I've only recently heard about him through the news, but they
   look pretty similar, have similar jobs and even have similar temperament. Maybe its just me, but I think it might be worth 
   including.

No matter how similar they may seem, it should not be mentioned in the article unless there is proof that it is true. Until then it is purely speculation, and wikipedia is not a place for speculation.Karpsmöm 14:52, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

theme references

in the old basic metalocalypse page when it was first created, someone wrote down beside each character their reference in the theme (ie. Skwisgaar Skwigelf - Taller than a Tree). it was soon removed, good thing. but now that there's a page on the characters maybe a reference to their description in the theme would be apropriate? just saying. Patrick (talk) 06:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it was on there at one ponit, I have no idea why it was takin off. I do think it should be mention, but I would not know how to word it in there. Anyway good idea. (talk) 15:49 10 December 2006 (UTC)

um...maybe at the end of the first paragraph of each character. that seems like a good place. ex (nathan explosion) Born in Florida to Oscar and Rose Explosion, Nathan Explosion is the lead singer and the "lyrical visionary" of Dethklok. According to intelligence gathered by The Tribunal, Nathan did not learn to speak until the age of five and was an unremarkable student in high school, excelling only in frog dissection and football, eventually dropping out without earning his GED. Nathan is referenced in theme song as "Nathan Explosion."

either that or a new header. but if there was to be a header about the theme song of the show, maybe it would be more appropriate for it to be on the show's page. i think their needs to be more of a consensus before more action is taken. Patrick (talk) 22:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Good point lets wait for others to have some input. User:Peavey5150(talk) 17:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Pickles Picture

Whether it was a prank or an accident. The picture of actual pickles instead of Pickles is just plain funny. Shimbozy 19:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I do love when vandals have a sense of humor. It's fixed. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

aw should have left that talk 19:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Spelling of general's last name

Does anyone have a reference for the correct official spelling of the general's last name? We have it here as "Crozier," but IMDB lists it as "Krosier." Is it on screen in an episode somewhere, or in the credits? All I see in the credits is listings for the voices. --Boradis 00:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure if you should go with any of the spelling on IMBD. I mean they still spell the bands name as "Deathclock" so I would'nt think IMBD is a good reference site for spelling. --Peavey5150 13:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Ofdensen's actor and Face Bones

I'm confused about the Ofdensen-Face Bones connection. This article states that Ofdensen does the voice of Face Bones, but does that mean the cartoon character was shown voicing Face Bones at some point? If so, I don't remember that, and I've seen all the episodes at least once. Or is it that the two share the same real-world voice actor? And who is/are the voice actor(s) for him/them anyhow? --Boradis 01:28, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

If you watch Murdering Outside the Box right after the song is over Ofdensen voice is the same as face bones. Heres a link on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWX42ZlUjzc --talk 14:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the link. I watched it carefully and listened to it just as carefully and you're right, Ofdensen does sound just like Face Bones. But I'm still not sure that Ofdensen IS supposed to also be Face Bones since we don't SEE the cartoon character actually performing the voice while Face Bones is talking. So since there are other explanations possible (a recording or animation mix up at Titmouse seems the most likely alternative) this isn't conclusive. I think a more accurate way to say this is: In "Murdering Outside the Box", when Ofdensen appears on stage after the music video, his voice sounds a great deal like Face Bones'. But I won't perform the edit and will leave it to others, who I hope will reconsider this issue, to decide. --Boradis 23:34, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with wording it that way entail we know if Ofdensen is the voice actor or not. But lets wait for others to have some input before we change anything. --talk 13:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikiquotes to Wikipedia character linkage

I'm experiencing an issue with linking between Wikiquotes and Wikipedia. Accodring to the template for Wikiquotes pages, the first occurrence of each character in each episode that has quotes listed should be linked back to the originating Wikipedia article for that character. Linking the band members proves to be no problem, but when I attempt to link to others such as the manager or Knubbler, It will either try to take me to a page specifically for that character, or simply the very top of the Characters of Metalocalypse page. So, my question is: should we consider creating individual pages for most major characters for this show? I think there's enough information for many of them to have their own pages, and some of them could be fleshed out even further. If not, then how do you propose linking to specific characters on this page for Wikiquotes? I find it odd that it will link just fine for the band members, but not for other characters who have their own sub-section devoted just to them. Any help here would be appreciated. -- ModernTenshi04 15:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Experts at the showing of Blood Ocean

It appears that several of the experts called in by the Tribunal were in attendance at the premire of blood ocean. Given the end result of the episode, would it be safe to assume that these experts are now deceased? Unitg3d 16:52, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Given the supernatural nature of this show, and the example of helicopter chef Jean Pierre in "Curse of Dethklok," I think it's not safe to assume. Might be worth a mention, since they may indeed be dead, but only as a possibility. --Boradis 00:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe it would be worth a mention in their paragraphs that they attended the Blood Ocean premier and could have been toasted. For example, "attended the Blood Ocean premier and may have been killed in the ensuing disaster." Thoughts? MalikCarr 11:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

That makes perfect sense to me. --Boradis 21:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps they all drowned in the BLOOD. OCEAN. MGlosenger 21:45, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Added the notes about the experts (Dr. Donald Gorfield, Vincenzo D'allimamma La Corningston III, Horace Marvingblad Wimplestein, Jr., Dr. Chaz Fazzeldoctinhoffer) in attendance at Blood Ocean. Unitg3d 20:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to have been removed......Gavyn Sykes 21:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

2 points

Cartoon Network did a New Year's double marathon of all episodes (love those guys), and it gave me two questions.

Where is the spelling for "Selatcia" obtained? It is not how they seem to be pronouncing the name.

In the episode where Skwisgaar will be giving lessons on pay-per-view, the cardinal refers to himself as "I, Miguel", can anyone verify?

Chris 05:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I always thought that the cardinal said "I, as well". Unitg3d 21:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that's what I heard. --Boradis 01:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Bloat

This article is so unnecessarily long-winded and filled with frivolous details and editors' own speculations rather than concise facts. Where people are adding their own conclusions and guesswork they're failing to add any source of the information which is a blatant violation of WP:NOR and can be deleted without discussion - which people are going to have to start doing to stop this article becoming absurdly awful fancruft. - 81.178.71.235 22:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

That's a cute allegation, but where exactly are you drawing that from? There is some original research in this article, to be sure, but by and large everything mentioned is directly stated, shown, or implied within reasonable doubt: the majority of conclusions in this article are fact or drawn from fact. Additionally, who are you to suggest that details are "frivolous"? Your statement reeks of some kind of asinine elitism. MalikCarr 09:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

What, you're going to make some inane allegation, then disappear with no further rationale? Great. MalikCarr 22:48, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Armand Skagerakk Frederickshaven

I think it is a good idea to put as much information as posible about all the experts. In the Dethfan video, we see a screenshot of Dr. Frederickshaven. This is hardly random, he was placed there for a reason. I think he sees the power of Dethklok and is now a fan.R6rome 04:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

What you think and what is fact is quite different. Adding that he appears is fine. Speculating on why is not. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

That's true, I've seen many animated TV shows that just re-use character images when showing group shots. Karpsmöm 04:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

All right, I'll note that he appears :-)R6rome 05:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Dethklok's Doctor

I think there are a couple of errors in this section:

The Dr. performing the transplant is a different guy (different voice, darker skin tone, no side burns). In Girlfriendklok, he says a couple of lines "Well she's in a coma, and if you want to talk to her, she can hear you. Whatever.

Also, in his first appearance, he appears to be in a veterinary clinic (see all the spa/neuter posters?, dog noises?), although in Girlfriendklok it appears he is in MordlanR6rome 05:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I've reviewed those episodes, and you're correct, they do appear to be three different doctors. I think we should hold off on deleting the entry for a bit, though, to see if anyone else wants to add their two cents to the discussion, as it were. MalikCarr 23:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember watching the episodes again on New Year's Eve - there were at least two different doctors, possibly three. On another note, The Unifying Force is a great book, Malik. Gavyn Sykes 22:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Nathan rewrite

I am going to rewrite this section to better meet wikipedia's standards. Feel free to comment.

Parents: Oscar and Rose Explosion. Place and date of birth: unknown.

Background: Nathan did not learn to speak until the age of five and was an unremarkable student in high school, excelling only in frog dissection and football. He eventually dropped out of highschool and has not obtained a diploma or GED. Nathan hints in 'Snakes N Barels' that Dethklok is not his first hand, but they have not been revealed.

Role in Dethklok: Nathan is the lead singer and the "lyrical visionary" of Dethklok, employing death grunt vocals. Nathan carries a recording device, in which he notes any interesting song material he may run across (usually limited to murder or similar acts of brutality). Nathan appears to have ultimate creative control over the band, as in in "Dethwater," it was revealed that Nathan deleted 17 entire finished albums before the recordings for Dethwater met with his approval.

Personality: Nathan drinks alcohol excessively, and as a result has to undergo repeated liver replacement surgery. Natahn has a visible weight problem, and in an ocassion a tabloid estimated him at 250 pounds and climbing. Despite this, Nathan is very muscular and strong; in "Fat Kid at the Detharmonic" he was capable of lifting and holding Dethklok's obese adopted son with ease, while in "Girlfriendklok," he was capable of carrying a piano on his back, albeit with difficulty. Whenever called upon to speak publicly from a prepared speech, Nathan quickly degenerates into incoherence and becomes frustrated. Several of the characters in the show refer to Nathan as "Tonto" while mocking him. Nathan is known for ‘smashing things he does not understand’, such as wrist watches. Nathan often describes things in terms of whether or not they are "brutal" or "metal," and, according to an expert procured by the Tribunal, shares a similar psychological profile as former Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin in his ability to "galvanize the proletariat." Nathan has shown himself to be clueless about most things outside the scope of metal. However he isn't completely devoid of common sense for example in "Skwisklok," when Toki's tooth falls out, Nathan explains that it was because Toki was eating too much candy. In "Dethclown," he estimates that he only wears underwear approximately 65% of the time.

Relationships: Nathan is the only band member ever seen having a steady relationship. In "Girlfriendklok," Nathan found a controlling celebrity girlfriend, Rebecca Nightrod, who forced him to tone down his behavior. He hated her temper tantrums and demands, and described his hatred of her as much more brutal than his ordinary hate. Though his bandmates tortured him until they convinced him to dump her, a subsequent mishap involving an unusually steep flight of stairs and a broken high heel left her comatose, after which Nathan described her as "the ultimate girlfriend."

Endorsements: Nathan has his own brand of barbecue sauce known as "Explosion Sauce," a mustardy North Carolina blend with a hint of cilantro, which he is known to drink out of the bottle.

Nathan is voiced by Brendon Small. --R6rome 21:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that dividing a character's section into subsections is a bad idea. However, I a) think that "parents" should be merged into "backgroundb" and b) don't think that "Relationships" and "Endorsements" should be separate sections. He only has one of each, and neither is mentioned outside of one episode.--Halloween jack 21:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I like it. Are you going to do the same to the other band members as well? Anyway, few suggested changes. "such as bags of wrist watches" since it was made abundantly clear that he enjoys pulverizing a bunch of them in one sitting. Also, the sentence where it talks about Nathan's common sense seems a bit jumbled. How about:

"Nathan is often clueless about anything outside the scope of metal. A rare instance of common sense came in "Skwisklok" where Nathan observed one of Toki's teeth falling out was due to eating too much candy; Nathan also correctly pointed out that lost teeth do not grow back."

That sounds better worded, as far as my ears go. Oh, yes, you may want to include that he was somehow able to recite an entire collection of Shakespeare for a books on tape program (though losing his voice in the process), since that is completely contradictory to how he usually goes about reading prepared material. MalikCarr 23:02, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Good point on the reading of Shakespeare. Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I hope to do this for this whlo section at some point :-) I like the clarification on the common sense!--R6rome 15:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem. If you'd like me to take a crack at cleaning up any more phrases, just let me know. My English major is finally paying off. Ho ho. MalikCarr 03:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Footnotes

Is there a way we can just put a footnote for each episode at the bottom of each page, and then use footnotes to provide citations? I would do it, but I don't know the proper method for sourcing a TV episode. I propose this because a good chunk of the article is just clauses that say "In 'Girlfriendklok,'" or "...as show in 'Bluesklok.'" --Halloween jack 16:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The Queen of Denmark

Why is she not listed under One-time characters? Gavyn Sykes 04:16, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Ketamine

The drug that destroyed Pickles' former band's memory is just a slang term for Ketamine. This is referenced in the article for Ketamine. 4.234.51.167 05:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing that mentions Sweet Alabama Liquid Snake in that article. Chris 09:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

The Ketamine article does not contain the words, "sweet", "Alabama" or "snake" in it. Karpsmöm 15:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Bringing back characters

I've returned the list of one-time characters to the main Characters in Metalocalypse page; currently not sure what to do with the others. Should we bring them back too? MalikCarr 08:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we should have an article on one time characters at all. We have no pictures, and over 20 of them and thats just in one Season. So I think we should stop adding one time charaters. 5150 17:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I could get pictures for all of the one-time characters if you wanted, but the page would probably take a while to load with all of those. MalikCarr 09:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

That's what am saying its to much work to keep it up. I guess we could bring it back on the characters' page. But after a few seasons theres going to be several pages of One-time characters. I just don't see the importance in keep this section up.5150 22:26, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Excellence

Whomever split up the article into different segments as is has done a service to the page and to the greater Metalocalypse article(s). Good work on that. Now we can continue laboring on making these cleaner and nicer and more informative without all the clutter of all the other segments. MalikCarr 06:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Umm... what the hell? User:Metalfleur has essentially reverted all the progress that was made in splitting up the characters page, zero rationale or comments here beforehand... Dude, can you talk about this kind of thing first? MalikCarr 10:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I say just revert. Had someone do this on another page I watch, and it really cheesed me off. I'm going to look for a Wikipedia policy that deals with this sort of nonsense. --Boradis 00:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Cardinal ravenwood.JPG

Image:Cardinal ravenwood.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

The "roadies"

The liner notes for The Dethalbum refers to them as Klokateers. From the liner notes: "DETHKLOK would like to thank the tireless work of the Klokateers (see we really are good bosses)." Given the context, I think it would be safe to assume that this is a reference to their hooded roadie employees. --BleachInjected 15:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Your assumption is correct, considering that it is reinforced by the term's use in the episode "Dethsources." I am going to change "Dethklok's roadies" to "Klokateers." Pmcginty (talk) 20:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Spelling of Offdensen (as opposed to Ofdensen)

The Dethalbum credits list him as "Charles Foster Offdensen" spelled with two (f)s as opposed to one. I do believe this is the only hard copy medium that shows his name. Also the extra consonant would shorten the first vowel, as it should be. The 'O' in Offdensen should rhyme with the 'o' in cot as opposed the the 'o' in own. I made these changes in his section, but I haven't changed it in other parts of the article yet. — Kjammer  ⌂ 04:59, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Could someone second this? I do not have a copy of the album, otherwise I would take care of it. Pmcginty (talk) 15:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Selatcia.jpg

Image:Selatcia.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 21:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Cardinal ravenwood.JPG

Image:Cardinal ravenwood.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 09:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Cocaine

The second line in the section for Dr. Rockso states that he does Cocaine. But as of 'Cleanzo', Dr. Rockso is clean. I see a small rewrite in order, but I am not the one to do it as I have been having problems wording things correctly. Anyone care to take a stab at it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theyain Riyu (talk • contribs) 06:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Roadie.JPG

Image:Roadie.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Vater Orlaag = Rasputin

It appears to me that Vater Orlaag is a parody of Grigori Rasputin, the Russian mystic who was close to the Tsar's family and was suspected of influencing them politically. However, the only evidence is his appearance and accent, so unless a third party source confirms, I guess this should stay on the talk page. JohnWhitlock (talk) 15:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Docterroadie.png

Image:Docterroadie.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:35, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Zazz Blammymatazz pictures

Who deleted the comparison photos of Dr. Rockzo's band and Van Halen? I personally uploaded the Van Halen photo and explained why it qualifies as "fair use". Whoever did this better have a good explanation, because the Van Halen photo is going right back in the article where it belongs.

ChildOfTheMoon83 (talk) 23:16, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

non-free content is not allowed in lists. β^_command 23:44, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

This is patently ridiculous. NFCC#8 says -nothing- about using nonfree content in lists - in fact, from my perspective, it would not only condone but encourage the image usage of one-per-character in this article. MalikCarr (talk) 22:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm calling BS on that, or rather I'm calling that an oversimplification of what policy actually says. What WP:FUC dictates is that each image have a distinct, non-decorative use which cannot be replicated by text and otherwise makes the use of non-free content worthwhile in the article. I do think that many images in this article do not pass those criteria by a long shot, but there is nothing in any of the relevant policy that says "all list articles are banned from using any non-free images".

In short, you're both wrong. All images can't remain in this article, but stripping them all out is inappropriate as well. (I've already identified one which passes FUC 3 and 8 just fine) Find a middle ground. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 22:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

With regards to the last edit by Betacommand...

Sorry, I read that too fast and thought it was your bot, rather than you.

Regardless, your interpretation of WP:NFCC is wrong. Use of non-free content in lists is not specifically prohibited, merely the decorative or trivial use of such images. Until such time as you are willing to evaluate the use of each image within the article, rather than broadly deleting them all, you will get nowhere in your efforts. Discussion is key. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 07:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:NFC it clearly states that images are not allowed in lists. β^_command 07:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I find no text that says "use in lists is prohibited". Doing a text search for "list" the only thing I can find is "The use of non-free media in lists, galleries, discographies, and navigational and user-interface elements usually fails the test for significance (criterion #8), and if it fails this test such use is unacceptable." (emphasis mine) That is not a statement of policy, merely an observation of the implementation thereof.

Again, it's a matter of the "decorative use" part of the policy. As I've said, I agree that some of these images do not meet the criteria set forth, but not all. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 07:38, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

its been established that NFC is not allowed in List of... type pages please see User:Durin/Fair use overuse explanation. β^_command 07:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

That's an essay, not a policy or guideline, and furthermore it's in the user space. There is absolutely no oversight to what that page says, and essentially has all the weight of a personal opinion, nothing more. If there's some kind of guideline or policy document out there that says "list = no fair use images" I'll relent, (really, for all I know there is one out there) but all you're giving me is a user opinion backed up by another user opinion. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 07:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

its also a summary of several discussions that resulted in the fact that NFC is not allowed in List of.. pages. β^_command 07:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Betacommand, fixing flagrant violations of the fair use policy is exempt from 3RR, but this article, unlike most "List of ..." articles has actual content and more than just a one liner about each character. I don't know that it is a flagrant violation, but whatever it is, the article is protected for two days. Sort it out here, please - just reverting doesn't help anyone. --B (talk) 08:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

You say that, but again, I'm not seeing any proof that policy (or even guidelines) actually says that. There's nothing that says that or anything remotely like that. Just because an article has a certain word or phrase in the title, be it "List of", "character", or "Car" for that matter, doesn't have any bearing on the merits of the content therin.

On a side note, now that I think about it this article wasn't always named "List of Metalocalypse characters". Someone moved it back in November with no discussion, warning, or (apparently) consensus to do so. The article was named "Characters in Metalocalypse" specifically to avoid this crap. I do believe I'll ask somene to move it back. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 08:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

As has been stated in other places, if a character is notable enough to have their own image, they should be notable enough for their own article. and thus should have the image of them on that page not here. if they are not notable enough for their own article, how can you claim that they are notable enough for an image? β^_command 08:07, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, where's the documentation to back that claim up? I don't remember that part of policy either, certainly not the part about notable characters always having their own article (see Category:Lists of Pokémon). And I definitely don't remember anything about whether or not something has a separate article being the sole justification for whether or not it should have an image associated with it, especially since policy and guidelines specify numerous situations where factors other than notability can necessitate the creation of a separate article, or the merging of multiple articles into one. (length, complexity, etc.) -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 08:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Yukichigai, although the use of images in lists are allowed; please be aware that these images must be kept to the minimum amount, and have to be completely necessary to the article. Portrayals of individual characters are not necessary to gain encyclopedic information in the article. (You could adequately describe the character instead) However an image such as Image:Dethklok2.jpg may be useful as it both shows the characters and provide context for the whole list. Please be very careful when reverting a fair use claim in the future. — DarkFalls ^talk 08:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If you read up a few paragraphs you'll note I do agree with you. I simply take issue with the way Betacommand attempted to clear out all of the images without discussion or (apparently) actually evaluating the merits of each use. Most of the images here probably won't survive and shouldn't be here, but not all. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 08:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Would you agree with the use of only Image:Dethklok2.jpg for the article? — DarkFalls ^talk 08:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

That particular image is more appropriate for the separate Dethklok article (which has issues of its own). For this article I can't really speak to any of the existing images other than Image:Metalocalypse Jean-Pierre.jpg, which depicts a physical disfiguration(sp?) which simply cannot be accurately described by text. (In my opinion anyway) There do exist multiple group shots of The Tribunal within the show, and I think finding one brief shot of all members and uploading it would be a more-than-adequate replacement for the multiple images in that section currently. As for the rest... meh, I have no real opinion on them, but I do want to give other editors time to perhaps suggest why such images would be justified. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 08:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

This is also being discussed on WT:NFC. I don't know if it justifies images in this article or not, since group shots are more desired when possible, but there is no blanket ban on images from lists. -- Ned Scott 08:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Page rename (again)

Somewhere back in November User:Fullmetal2887 changed the name of this article from "Characters in Metalocalypse" to "List of Metalocalypse characters", with no apparent discussion (or presumably consensus) reportedly due to "naming conventions". Since nobody reverted the change, however, I cannot help but assume that this rename might have been within consensus; then again, maybe not. Thus, I would like some input as to whether or not the article should be re-renamed "Characters in Metalocalypse", so that (among other reasons) we can avoid the type of issues that have arisen with Betacommand/etc. because this is a "list". Thoughts? -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 08:28, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The page should be moved to List of Metalocalypse characters. 76.16.188.239 (talk) 17:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

That's a nice opinion, but it might be more helpful if you elaborated as to why. -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 08:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

:This article should be moved to "list..". "Characters in.." are generally reserved for actual articles, with substantial real world content. This current article is actually a list. --  StarScream1007  ►Talk  22:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

From doing some research about article titles, it seems that we are far from alone when it comes to debating something as somewhat minute as this. When searching with the keywords '"List of" characters', I got 26,794 results, and when I search "Characters in", I got 15,782 results. However, most of the results in "Characters in" were titled "List of [whatever] characters in..." anyway. Therefore, I propose that this article should be "List of Metalocalypse characters." Pmcginty (talk) 16:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

"List of" is inaccurate though, because this isn't a straight list, it's a collection of stubs and smaller articles. I think it's also fair to say that by extension of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, just because a bunch of other articles do something doesn't mean this article has to do it too. If there's some policy or guideline document to that effect, maybe, but I've yet to see anyone find any non-essay document which says articles like this "should" (much less "must") have a name that starts with "List of". -- Y|yukichigai (_ramble argue ^check) 23:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Compare List of Metal Gear Solid characters to Characters of StarCraft; Given my first post made little sense, I'll attempt to clear it up. List-class articles about characters generally only review their subject without usually offering real world information. Actual articles cannot do this; articles that do not have much real world information or only review the subject in an in-universe manner usually get deleted or merged. The decision to change the name of the article should depend on the article's current content. When we raised a similar question on List of Gears of War characters, a veteran editor advised us to refrain from changing the article to "Characters in Gears of War" until there was less plot-related information and more verifiable and real-world information. --  StarScream1007  ►Talk  16:17, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Yuki. "Characters in..." is pref. to List of..., because it is a more apt description of what this page is. Moreover, it should help to keep this page from being nothing more than a list page. Carl.bunderson (talk) 22:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

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