Talk:Lindy Basic

Should this be at Basic (Lindy)? Because other dances have their own basics...

Inaccurate article

It's interesting, you bring up that the article is inaccurate, typically we would prove this by showing that the citations are inaccurate or non-existent, yet there is not a single fact in either of these articles that has a reference to any source, yet alone a reliable one. Maybe this content could be moved to a wikibooks project on how to dance hip hop? Alan.ca 06:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I just saw this page. Who wrote it? I have never seen anything like it, and I have attended all major lindy hop events - for years, as well as dozes of camps and workshops! I have never seen anyone describe "lindy basic" like this, nor have seen any dancers perform many of these moves. Are we talking about the same dance?

You even write that the swingout is sometimes called a "sugar push". this is incorrect, these are totally different and unrelated moves. same goes for basic rhythm. 1,2 3&4,5,6,7&8 is a convinient rhythm to a certain type of swing songs for certain type of moves - usually 8 count moves. different songs with different rhythms have different footworks. plus, a big part of swing dancing, ever since it's inception - as evident from lindy hop movies of the late 20's - is 6 count moves that have completly different rhythm.

First of all, Lindy Hop doesn't have a basic step, it's an improvisational vernacular jazz dance. Writing basic steps for lindy is like writing basic steps for Ballet. Does Ballet has basic steps? No, and so doesn't Lindy. 2nd, if you want to find a basic step to teach or adopt a basic for yourself (that you can revert to while dancing), most people will agree about the Swingout (The most charestaristic movement of swing dancing, ever since swing dancing started, as evolved from the breakaway & texas tommy, where the basic step was the partners dance together, then seperating swinging the partner out), or the step-step to the left, step-step to the right in a close position as describe by dancers from the savoy era.

It is more then enough to have the "Swingout (dance move)" entry in Wikipedia, I think that this current entry is redundant and very inaccurate. Please respond before I recommend this whole entry to be removed due to gross disinformation and lack of proper research.

ALSO, please consider merging this page with List of lindy hop moves--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.107.135.181 (talk • contribs) 12:29, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Although it is technically not a "basic step", the swingout is the closest thing to it in Lindy Hop. Having both that article and this one is redundant. Rather than deleting this article, it should probably redirect to the swingout article. --Cswrye 15:08, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This article does not accurately describe lindy hop as it is danced in the workshops, exchanges, and competitions. It seems to be the case that ballroom and east coast instructors are using the phrase 'lindy basic' to refer to something other than the swingout, in which case the articles should not be merged. --Brian —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.29.83.19 (talk • contribs) 05:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Suggested merge

I concur Cswrye, I would have done it myself, but I truly know nothing of this topic, I was here only because of the Wikipedia backlog relating to merge requests. Alan.ca 12:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I decided to just be bold and just change this into a redirect. I don't think that there was anything in this article that wasn't better explained in the swingout article. Most of the information in this article wasn't even about the Lindy Hop basic step anyway. If anyeone really needs it, it's still in the history. If anyone disagrees, I won't be upset about a revert. —Cswrye 13:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on the above comments, I support a merge of this article into the swingout article. Although Lindy Hop does not really have a basic step, the swingout is the closest thing to it. That makes this article redundant. The relevant information from this article can be moved to the swingout article, then this article can become a redirect to that page. --Cswrye 04:59, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

PlainJane 10:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC) I support the move to merge these two articles. This would require serious reworking of the remaining article.

Having had a chance to return to these articles, I feel that they should definitely be merged. Neither is of a high enough standard to stand as it is, though. I'll make reworking them my next job (unless someone else wants to get on it). NB a 'swingout' is described by the Rhythm Hot Shots as beginning in closed, with the lead rock-stepping on their left, then coming in front of the follower to the familiar closed position of the basic lindy move by 4. For the remainder of the 8 counts, the leader leads the follower out into open position. This is quite different to the 'basic' lindy move which begins in open, moves into closed, then into open again. The 'swinging out' is the movement from closed,out into open position. The Hot Shots of course worked closely with Al Minns in the 80s. Of course, the terms 'swingout' and 'basic' (or 'lindy basic'), as well as 'lindy turn' are used in different local scenes to refer to the same dance step which involves the movement from open to closed and back again: the 'break away'.

Reworking the swingout article should take this stuff into account. A possible plan for reworking these two articles: keep the lindy basic article (this one) as the main article for discussing the basic step of lindy hop. Keep the swingout page as a separate article, noting the Hot Shots' definition there, as well as noting that 'swingout' is a very common term for the lindy basic. Comments? Ideas?PlainJane 12:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I've seen and participated in many discussions and classes about lindy hop, and from what I can tell, in the United States, the term "swingout" is always used to refer to the "lindy basic", that is, it begins in open and ends in open. I have heard that it was widely called the "lindy turn" in the past, but that term seems to never be used in the United States nowadays. The description you provided by the Rhythm Hot Shots (that begins in closed and ends in open) is either called a "sendout" or a "swingout from closed position" in the U.S.

Of course, I don't think that there is necessarily a "correct" term to use here since different scenes use different terminology. However, I think that using the swingout article to describe the Rhythm Hot Shots' use of the term would be confusing to the relatively large number of lindy hoppers who are used to having it described differently. That's why I think it is counterproductive to have separate articles for "lindy basic" and "swingout". In my opinion, there should be one article (preferably "swingout"), and that article should describe all of the uses of the term. --Cswrye 05:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I think I might have failed to write coherently earlier - I agree with you completely Cswrye. Shall we use the 'swingout' page as the main article describing the 'basic' step of lindy hop, and keep the 'lindy basic' page as a redirect, taking care to discuss or mention how each of these words is used in different scenes?

I was also wondering just how many descriptions of the actual step we need in the article? I'd have thought a basic description (open to closed to open, some basic comments on connection/lead-follow), then references to how it is styled differently by different dancers/in in different scenes/at different historical moments, and that might be enough? At the moment there seems to be far too much technical description (which doesn't actually seem to make much sense as it is written). PlainJane 07:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I've started putting together a basic structure/list of content for the new article over at the swingout page. Please comment/add stuff/suggest stuff to be excluded, etc. I'll write it up when I get a chance PlainJane 07:38, 9 July 2006 (UTC)