Talk:Laura Knight/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: A Den Jentyl Ettien Avel Dysklyver (talk · contribs) 12:55, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Criteria compliance

Assessment against immediate failures criteria.

1. Plausibly good. Y

2. No copyright infringements. earwig

Issues please confirm that this is copying the article rather than being a copyvio issue. Checked. Y

3. No unresolved cleanup banners. Y

4. No edit warring on the page. Y

6 criteria test

• 1. Y - see comments section
• 2. Y - see comments section
• 3. Y - all main life points covered, major exhibitions and main works covered.
• 4. Y - no point of view issues.
• 5. Y - no edit wars at any point.
• 6. Y - see image assessment

Criteria 6 - Image assessment

• Main image https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Dame_Laura_Knight_circa_1910.jpg&oldid=72979244] File:Dame Laura Knight circa 1910.jpg - public domain due to image age. (authors life + 70 years) - image author Alexander Bassano (1829 - 1913) - so became public domain 1983. ✓
• File:Self-Portrait with a Nude by Dame Laura Knight.jpg - the work is under copyright until 2041. fair use. now tagged fair use.✓
• [1] File:INF3-108 Food Production Horse-drawn plough, land girl Artist Laura Knight.jpg - Public domain from the UK National Archives - OTRS ticket confirmed ticket #2012051010007684. ✓
• [2] File:Corporal J.D.M Pearson, GC, WAAF (1940) (Art. IWM ART LD 626).jpg - Public domain worldwide released by HMSO (UK Government work). ✓
• [3] File:A Balloon Site, Coventry (1943) (Art. IWM ART LD 2750).jpg - Public domain worldwide released by HMSO (UK Government work). ✓
• [4] File:Ruby Loftus screwing a Breech-ring (1943) (Art. IWM LD 2850).jpg - Public domain worldwide released by HMSO (UK Government work). Featured picture! ✓
• [5] File:Take Off (1943) (Art.IWM ART LD 3834).jpg - Public domain worldwide released by HMSO (UK Government work). ✓
• [6] File:The Nuremberg Trial, 1946 (1946) (Art. IWM ART LD 5798).jpg - Public domain worldwide released by HMSO (UK Government work). ✓

Comments

These issues have been identified by the reviewer as worthy of attention, not all of them 'must' be dealt with to meet GA status

based on the article as of this diff

• Lead - Y

"Knight was a painter in the figurative, realist tradition who embraced English Impressionism" - I presume it was Knight who embraced Impressionism, not the "figurative, realist tradition" which embraced Impressionism.

Changed Y

"was a first for a woman." - maybe "was the first for a woman."?

Changed as requested Y

"Although Knight was known for painting amidst the world of the theatre and ballet in London, and for being a war artist during the Second World War, she was also greatly interested in, and inspired by, marginalised communities and individuals, including Gypsies and circus performers." - a 48 word sentence! I think it could be made into two sentences easily enough.

Split as suggested Y

"Her success in the male-dominated British art establishment paved the way for greater status and recognition for women artists." No reference? I think this is enough of a non-standard statement to need a reference.

Reference added Y

• Biography/Early Life -

"Her father died not long after her birth, and Knight grew up in a family that struggled with financial problems" this bothers me, the fathers death date is unclear ("not long" could mean a month or 3 years), and the "Knight grew up in a family" seems undefined given that the rest of the section talks about various other relatives going bankrupt. Maybe: "Her father died not long after her birth in 19##, and Knight's family struggled with financial problems during her childhood".

I don't recall any sources giving dates for when her father left the household or for when he died. The fullest account of him that I have seen is in Simon Schama's the Face of Britain and I have added that as a reference. Also made it clear he had already abandoned the family when he died.

"modest scholarship" - again 'modest' has no clear meaning, I would remove the word.

Deleted modest Y

"one of the most promising students, Harold Knight," this needs a reference. (there might be one in his article).

Reference added Y

"married in 1903" I think this should be referenced as well.

Reference added Y

There are a few more points which could be referenced clearer, which could be looked at further at FA.

• Biography/Staithes and Laren -

"accompanied by Sissie," not sure that a nickname is the best way to refer to someone beyond noting the existence of said nickname.

Full name added

"In Staithes Laura Knight" Is this not before she married?

Changed

"she produced few oil paintings at this time." - so how many did she produce at this time?

I doubt if I will find a precise figure but will check

The quote seems to lack the quote formatting used extensively in other articles.

Format changed

• Biography/Cornwall -

"staying first in Newlyn, before moving to Lamorna." Personal comment but this could be "staying first in Newlyn, before moving to the nearby village of Lamorna." - since it is walking distance.

Changed as requested

"Around Newlyn the Knights found themselves among a group of sociable and energetic artists, which appears to have allowed the more vivid and dynamic aspects of Laura's personality to come to the fore." - is that a reference to the Newlyn School? This could be added. Also is Laura’s personality reliably sourced?

Earlier sentence altered to make the Newlyn School connection clearer. Reference for personality added.

"beach at Newlyn" - there are 7 beaches "at Newlyn", if it is known which beach, it could be specified. I could easily guess, but that would be OR.

I don't recall a specific beach being named so changed beach to beaches

"the landowner" unclear but probably not an issue.

Name added

"plein-air compositions" - needs a wikilink to define plein-air.

plein-air linked in earlier sentance

Again it is unclear how many works she painted during this period, nor what they were called, except The Green Feather.

Added two more examples

• Biography/Self Portrait with Nude -

" a painting that was a first for a woman artist" - I presume this is the first painting of a nude model by a woman artist? It should say so, because it could otherwise be the first female self portrait. (if it is I apologise)

Clarified

"Passmore Edwards Art Gallery" - there is a wikilink for this Newlyn Art Gallery.

Link added

Personal comment: was she a member of the Newlyn Society of Artists?

Don't know, will check

I have added a reference, under Membership, for Knight being a member from 1907 onwards.

" The Daily Telegraph critic called the painting "vulgar", and suggested that it "might quite appropriately have stayed in the artist's studio"." Several issues with this sentence, the critic should be named (if possible, as [7] does not name the critic), and the suggestion "might quite appropriately have stayed in the artist's studio" should be referenced.

Reference added, but none of the sources I have seen include the critics name.

• Biography/World War One and later -

The paragraph begins with Harold Knight, then mentions Laura Knight and continues with repeated use of an undefined 'Knight'. Consider breaking the first sentence from the rest of the paragraph to avoid confusion.

Moved sentence on Harold to end of paragraph

"Ella Naper, who was experienced in the technique" - what technique?

Link added to clarify; further reference added

"Special permits available after 1915 allowed Knight to..." - Special permits for what? Maybe being on a cliff in wartime? No reference so I can't tell. This is sufficiently out of the ordinary to need a wikilink or reference, and possibly a definition of what the permit was for.

Special permits for public sketching and painting were required in Britain in both World Wars. Sentence altered to make clearer.

"Pittsburgh International Exhibition of Pictures" what was this event and is it possible to link to it? if not, a short explanation of what it was would be nice, details like the size of the jury could be added for general interest.

Will look into this.

• Biography/Baltimore 1926 -

"Baltimore Children's Hospital and in the racially segregated wards of the Johns Hopkins Hospital" - wikilinks to both hospitals if possible, also the wards were segregated, so which wards? the black, or the white? if both, then there is no point in mentioning it.

John Hopkins Hospital is linked in first sentence of the paragraph and there is no article for the Baltimore Children's Hospital. Specified black wards.

• Biography/Circus folk -

"Mills' circus was a highly polished show with internationally renowned performers" I think this needs to be referenced.

Reference added

"...led to some of her circus scenes appearing 'flat', her paintings..." who says they are flat - this could be OR.

Reference added

"...her paintings of small groups of clowns, such as The Three Clowns (1930) and Old Time Clowns (1957), were much more successful." and the successfulness needs a reference.

Reference added

"Knight's Circus Folk exhibition, at the Alpine Club in 1930, was heavily criticised in art journals, but her paintings of more mundane subjects, such as domestic interiors and London streets, were highly praised" - this definitely needs a reference.

Reference added

• Biography/Recognition -

"...regular visitors to Malvern, making an..." ought to be "...regular visitors to Malvern, a town in Worcestershire, making an..." - because they are moving around enough for some clarification to be sensible, I instinctively went for the wikilink because I didn't know.

Clarification added as requested

• Biography/Gypsies -

Not all the information in this section is verifiable with [8] and I presume it is sourced to the book mentioned, although I can't check that. otherwise this section has no issues.

• Biography/World War Two -

Without access to the main sources I can't really say whether this section is verifiable or not, I like the way it is written, and it uses bullet-points in a sympathetic way to present the information.

At FA stage it may be worth noting the information presented about other people she made artwork about may need additional sourcing for verification and npov.

• Biography/Nuremberg 1946 -

Again the quote could be formatted.

Format changed

• Biography/Later life -

Again the whole section is referenced, but I can't critique whether all of the section is covered by the references. Otherwise no problems.

• Published works -

No problems.

At FA stage independent sources for her published works may be advisable.

• Membership -

at FA stage an additional independent reference for each membership would be advisable, at GA stage the two references supplied are (probably) fine.

• Exhibitions -

There is a formatting issue whereby the exhibitions have been divided into two columns, yet the introductory sentence seems to apply to both, although the second column is titled separately in a contradictory manner. I suggest breaking into two sections with === level subheadings, or making the column headers more obvious.

Format changed as suggested

I have no comments on whether the list is correctly identifying the main exhibitions or not, and will assume it does.

• Notes -

Reasonable note - no issue.

• References -

no errors.

• External links -

Good links, and a commons link-box.

Appropriate navbar

Good selection of authority control entries.

Plenty of categories.

---

Discussion

Regarding the points made above requiring further references, I am sure I can supply those from the main sources used in this article, namely the books by Broadley, Knowles, Fox and Clarke. I have all of these at home but at the moment I am in Rabat on a business trip and won't be home until Sunday. I hope that is OK with the reviewers. Apologies if this delay causes any problems. 14GTR (talk) 16:27, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

No worries, I will have another look through everything and research the dubious image, but I am minded to approve this soon. Dysklyver 18:59, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

I have added more references and made some other additions. There are a couple of points I will need to look into further over the next day or so.14GTR (talk) 23:11, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Other points

I'm just a passer by, not a GA reviewer, but I noticed that four of the references have dead links (#3 damelauraknight.com, #23 civilization.ca, #28 wartimenewport.virtuallyhere.co.uk, and #32 damelauraknight.com). It would be nice if the four references were updated — with a new URL location if the cited page has moved, switched to an archive link via archive-url if the page is gone but archived, or marked with {{Dead link}} otherwise. —RP88 ^(talk) 16:12, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

• @RP88: I have added archive links to the four dead links mentioned above using the "IABotManagementConsole" Thanks for bringing this up –72 _(t) 16:33, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Another passerby here. It looks to me like 'Later life' is not fully referenced, namely the first and third paragraphs. Knope7 (talk) 01:27, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

References added14GTR (talk) 23:11, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

I see improvement, however, it looks like the last few sentences of the first paragraph of 'Later life' are still not cited. Knope7 (talk) 03:00, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Status of Self Portrait with Nude

With regards to the image of Self Portrait with Nude at File:Self-Portrait with a Nude by Dame Laura Knight.jpg, I've investigated its source and copyright status. The EXIF information in the image on en.WP indicates that this particular image originated from the National Portrait Gallery London, but the color doesn't quite match the version that the NPG currently has online at NPG 4839. With regards to the copyright, it is not clear to me that this painting is actually in the public domain in the United States. While this work was created before 1923, it would have to have been published before 1923 to make use of the {{PD-US-1923-abroad}} template. I've searched quite a bit, and while I can find plenty of mentions of this painting in works published before 1923, I haven't found an actual reproduction of the painting in these publications (perhaps related to what at the time some considered to be its controversial subject and manner of creation). It might have been published in an exhibition catalog before 1923, in which case it would be in the public domain in the US, but I haven't been able to track one down. Does anyone know of a publication before 1923 that contained a reproduction of this painting?

On the other hand, since Self Portrait with Nude is Laura Knight's best known work and is the subject of extensive discussion in the article, even if it is not public domain, I think it would be possible to use it in the article as a non-free image via {{Non-free 2D art}} and an appropriate non-free image rationale. —RP88 ^(talk) 17:05, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

The earliest publication (of an image of the painting) I can find is 1993, the image is explicitly marked: © reserved, at source. I am unsure that an exhibition catalogue would suffice, but haven't found any relevant ones anyway. However, I am not adverse to using the {{Non-free 2D art}} tag as it would in my opinion be an acceptable fair use image. Dysklyver 18:53, 22 October 2017 (UTC) - ✓ Done

Finishing

• Everything seems in order to me, if anyone has any last minute issues they have spotted, or any minor improvements, then feel free to add them, I expect to promote this to GA soon. Dysklyver 22:28, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Many thanks to every one who contributed to the article passing GA and in particular to Dysklyver, for the prompt way you picked up the nomiation and dealt with the review. Again, many thanks to all concerned. 14GTR 14GTR (talk) 19:50, 26 October 2017 (UTC)