Talk:Konkani language agitation/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Article needs updating

This article's historical background is made-up nonsense and needs to be redone from scratch. Konkani didn't get state patronage in the Velhas Conquistas even during Kadamba rule (Kannada was the official language) or Vijayanagara rule (Kannada and Telugu were the court languages). Malvan and the Kanara were never ruled by the Portuguese, but Konkani language didn't develop there much either because the rulers of those areas were also not Konkan people. Same for Novas Conquistas Hindus, they had plenty of time and opportunity to develop Konkani but never bothered because the pre-Portuguese rulers were not Konkan people.

Christian missionaries sponsored by the Portuguese government (e.g. Thomas Stephens (Jesuit)) created Roman Konkani to communicate better with the natives. Portuguese government attempts to suppress Konkani in Goa took place independently of and later than the Inquisition, but they failed and church schools were teaching Roman Konkani until 1961 (then it was replaced by English). The linguist Cunha Rivara who supported Konkani was a Portuguese man who lived in Goa during the 1800s, he's not a post-1958 figure.

Rephrasing points of the Exodus

User Joyson has suggested that the language of the three time-lines of exodus of Konkani speakers be changed as the Konkani language primarily saw a decline after Portuguese annexation especially after the Inquisition. Any suggestions??Imperium ^Caelestis 12:52, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

My suggestion is that mention of the invasions by Malik Kafur and the Bahmanis be removed. True, their invasions caused the migration and subsequent dispersal of Konkani speakers. But there is no evidence to indicate that the language took a beating as a result. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 12:59, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I know quoting links is heresy :) but here it is [1]. I shall try finding out references that substantiate or elaborate on the point Muslim domination had an adverse effect on the growth of Konkani. under the paragraph Growth arrested Imperium ^Caelestis 13:15, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Providing links is just fine! Thanks for clarifying it. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 15:22, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Change title back to Konkani language agitation

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was changed back to Konkani language agitation. The article is clearly more general than 1986. --rgpk (comment) 18:33, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Aye: I suggest the title be changed back to Konkani language agitation as

• They were not one single event but a set of events that started even before the liberation of Goa in Neighbouring Karnataka.
• The particular agitation in 1986 was the culmination of a chain of events during earlier years.
• The struggle for recognition involves significant contribution from Konkani speakers from Karnataka and Kerala which can not be belittled.

Imperium ^Caelestis 13:10, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, i am confused! Kindly elaborate further. Are you suggesting that the "1986 Konkani language agitations" in Goa was by itself not a notable event deserving of an article and that the article's name should be changed for this reason? Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 13:17, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Nay: I must add that all events are the result of a series of occurrances. Just because there were a series of opposition before this does not make the preceding events as notable as the final event itself. The fact remains that the 1986 event was what led to the recognition of Konkani as an official language, not the series of events preceding that. I would like you to point that out for me. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 14:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Aye: Kindly peruse Wikipedia:Article_titles and Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view and read my previous argument thoroughly. Feel free to ask if a particular point is difficult to grasp. The contours of the English language are confusing at times. Imperium ^Caelestis 20:03, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Nay: That's what i asked, in all seriousness! I wasn't being sarcastic. Furthermore, i don't see how the title violates either guidelines. If you feel so, then you should point out to me which parts of WP:TITLE and WP:NPOV does it violates, instead of just directing me to these pages. I'm aware they exist. I have read them, but don't see where or how this article's current title violates them. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 05:50, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Aye:

• The current title restricts the scope of the agitation to the events in 1986 Goa.However, these were merely part of a larger movement.
• The Konkani versus Marathi propaganda war in Goa started in 1960 and was peppered by skirmishes. As it was a part of the actions taken, the addition of "1986" in the title would reduce the significance of said events.
• The first event for recognition of Konkani (actions taken) was at Karwar and the second at Udupi. The struggle for recognition of Konkani did not enter Goa until her liberation.
• It was the Konkani Bhasha Prachar Sabha (Kochi) that started a volley of letters addressing the Central government and the Kendra Sahitya Akademi to recognise Konkani.

In view of the above points, it is advisable to go back to the original title "Konkani language agitation" as it would broaden the article's definition and scope. Accordingly, a request has been posted at the adjoining link.[2]

Imperium ^Caelestis 07:15, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

An article on the 1986 Agitation is definitely necessary (as it was a very notable event). It led to the recognition of Konkani as an official language. As such, i now think it best that there be a separate article on the Konkani language agitations and the 1986 agitation be used as a sub-article. A summary of the events in the 1986 event can be mentioned in the Konkani Language agitations article with a link to the sub-article as well. I leave it to you whether you wish to change the title of this article, or delete the redirect and create a separate article on the Konkani Language Agitations. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 08:52, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Aye: I do concur that the specific events of 1986 do need a mention. However, the meagre information that I have on that subject do not let me create a separate article. It would require a day-by-day, event-by-event description. I am glad you share the reasoning that this article should be given back its old title and a sub-article could be created for the specific event in 1986.

This will only be in line with "the Indian independence struggle" as the main article and 'the liberation of Goa" as a sub-article thereof.Imperium ^Caelestis 11:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I suggest that you go ahead and create the article in spite of the meagre info. Google Book Search should come in handy regarding sources. You can always revamp it when you have enough materials. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 12:11, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing that link. I shall create a stub and need your liaising for the same. As my current priority is on an article on Konkani Grammar. I shall keep the projecho awaz agitation in mind but in abeyance. warm regards.Imperium ^Caelestis 12:16, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

This should be of help then. Good luck!

• http://books.google.co.in/books?id=lZv6UyynBPgC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

I shall leave the "1986 Goa Konkani language agitations" article to you. I do not have the necessary materials on this subject. I live in Bahrain now. So, the local library probably will not have any Konkani language related books. Google Book Search should prove very helpful. Joyson Noel ^{Holla at me!} 12:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I have operated flights to Manama. Thank you for that link. Imperium ^Caelestis 12:42, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Konkaniagitation.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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File:Konkani-porjecho-awaz.gif Nominated for Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:Konkani-porjecho-awaz.gif, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests March 2011 What should I do?
	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 14:58, 26 May 2011 (UTC)