Talk:Kids Incorporated/Archive 1

THIS IS AN ARCHIVED DISCUSSION PAGE. Please direct new comments about the Kids Incorporated article to the current talk page. Thanks. DanielEng 03:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

What is wrong with the dates at the start? It can't possibly be correct as that information clashes with the rest of the article.

I, Renaldo, accidentally made the mistake of posting MMC info HERE. It can be deleted except for the May 31st 1996 part. So sorry about that.

Sources

All information in every article needs to be sourced, as per WP:CITE. However, the "Trivia" section of this article is particularly bad. I'm going through and pulling out anything I see that's not easily verifiable. The rest of the article still needs sources, and no new information should be added without a source. adavidw 08:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

the trivia section is FIIINE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.80.117.24 (talk • contribs) 12:44, September 14, 2006 (UTC)

I put my ass and balls into that Trivia section and for you to say its bad is really sad with me. so very wrong! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.80.117.24 (talk • contribs) 09:12, September 15, 2006 (UTC)

I'd suggest putting your ass and balls into reading WP:5P, WP:CITE, and the other guidelines for writing a good article. No one's saying you didn't work hard. It's just that the section is not up to the quality of what Wikipedia should be. adavidw 08:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe...

Revamp

I've tried to organize and revamp this article. Most of the trivia was incorporated into the body of the text; I've also added an infobox. DanielEng 10:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Good. I was about to say. I thought you tried to mess over me. lolz Also I could've swornd it 149 eps, not 150.

No, the info in the article was good, I just tried to make it a little easier for people to find what they need and edit for style, flow, all that jazz.

The quote of 150 episodes comes from the KidsIncorporated.us site, which seems to be the authority on the show. :) AFAIK, the 150 episodes includes the pilot and the "Rock in the New Year" special, which would have been considered part of the run in theory, even if they were handled differently in practice.

By the way, did you add the new trivia piece here:

Kids Incorporated is also one of the only shows on television, next to Power Rangers, You Can't do that on television and MMC where the year the characters leave is the season not fall-spring.

I was a little confused by this. Did you mean that the broadcast seasons in KI were the actual calendar years, instead of the traditional fall-spring season run? If so, I can punch up that bit of trivia, if you like, to make it a little easier to understand. DanielEng 09:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, thats what I meant and I appreciate the editing Daniel

glad to help! DanielEng 21:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

adult industry stuff

I've moved the stuff on Eric Balfour's films to his own bio page. It doesn't seem as if it belongs here, and because it's a Disney series I'd be worried about a kid surfing and clicking on that link.

On Eric's page...it might be better to simply name the film/studio/etc. so that people can find it on their own, instead of providing a link, for the same reason. I'm not sure how Wiki feels about links to adult content. I'm leaving it alone because I don't know, but it might be a question that can be asked somewhere. DanielEng 21:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

OK< I went to the page to edit it, and info on this film is there already. Providing the link might be doable, but I'd like to look up Wiki policy on that before I accidentally add something i shouldn't.DanielEng 21:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you serious? You erased other stuff as well. And no kids no about this series.70.185.125.101 23:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I didn't erase anything else. If you look at the diffs here [1] you will see that the only thing I deleted were the parts about the porno film.

Kids do know about this show...80s stuff is very in right now. Also, the page Wikilinks to Disney, Raven and other pages that kids would read. In addition, I looked up Wiki policy on the link. Adult links are not allowed: Any page being considered as an external link should be useful, appropriately tasteful, and accessible to users with disabilities.

It also appears to be inappropriate for two reasons, other than the adult content. Please see here: [2]

Certain kinds of pages should not be linked from Wikipedia articles. Except where noted, this list does not override the list of what should be linked.

• 1. A page which only provides information already in the article, or which does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article here would have once it becomes a Wikipedia:Featured article.

• 2. A page that violates the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations. Sites which fail to provide licensing information or to respond to requests for licensing information should not be used. There are currently a large number of links to YouTube [1] and similar sites in violation of this principle. If a linked clip has no licensing information it should be removed or reverted. (Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States.)

The fact that one member of the cast--out of a large pool--did an adult film is not significant enough to deserve a special section, or even a mention. Also, IMHO, there are too many cast members to really spend a lot of time on what every person did after KI. That is better left for the actors' individual pages, leaving the focus here on the show itself.

If you want, we can certainly open the floor here...does anyone else have an opinion who would like to jump in? DanielEng 00:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Blah, blah, blah, yes you did and all the stuff is relevant. Kids do not know about Kids Inc. Raven yes as that is a kids series. No flipping duh!70.185.125.101 02:58, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you have a look at Wiki's page on editor civility. [3]

I'm a bit surprised by your attitude here. It's not "blah blah blah"...if you want to put something in an article, you need it to meet Wikipedia policies. You seemed to have a problem with the deletion; I explained it to you. That's how it works here. I've been civil to you; I expect the same in return.

You can think that "kids don't know about Kids Inc.," I've seen direct proof to the contrary. My ten year old niece loves the show. Perhaps you don't know that a Wikilink can direct a user to any other page. In other words, Raven has a Wikilink here; someone reading her page could use the "what links here" tab and find the Kids Inc. page. It's connected.

I'm also extremely creeped out and perplexed as to why you'd want to add a link to porno movie to a page about a children's show, to be honest. DanielEng 05:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Not so much as the link anymore but the acknowledgement of it (the film). And no reason to be creeped out. I'm not a pedophile. Too black for that.70.185.125.101 06:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I do find it creepy that it's come up at all. It's a kids' show.

You still haven't given any reason to justify mentioning the film, though. What the actor did years after KI has absolutely no relevance to the page on the show itself. If readers are interested in what he did later on, they can always visit his own Wiki page. It's already acknowledged in the article that many of the actors went on to have continuing careers in showbiz, and Balfour's mentioned there. DanielEng 16:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

OH YES IT DOES. I'm gonna ask for a new editor. lol. Your statements above gives enough reason for the WHERE ARE THEY NOW, section to be deleted. At least in your opinion.

Also, BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT, stop being Anal. You everything listed like Martika, Eric, Mario, etc but nothing on the others like Jennifer and Eric. Also, you just think children can't grasp the concept of what they do when they leave? Plus how will they access videos. None of them know about XTube or YouTube obviously.I hear you out though.70.185.125.101 20:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

'This is a page about the SHOW, NOT the actors. Each and every KI cast member is Wikilinked in the infobox at the righthand side of the article. If a reader is interested in what happened to a particular actor, they can click the link and read that person's bio on THEIR page. This is a consistent format on Wiki articles about television.

If there was a trend in what happened to the actors, yes, that could be mentioned. For instance, in the Poltergeist series of films, several of the principals died during/after filming, and the 'curse' is well known and associated with the movies.

In the KI article, several of the actors went on to have careers in the music industry--yes, it's mentioned because it ties in directly to the show. However, the fact that one actor--out of a principal cast of about thirty--did an adult film is neither relevant nor appropriate. Once again, I wonder why you feel the need to add this information to a kids' show page.

You still have not been able to explain exactly why it's important to mention this bit of trivia, or what specific, direct relevance it has to the series. Eric Balfour has many, many credits to his name. Why is there a fixation with this one? What does it have to do with the KI show itself? You haven't been able to explain this. Saying "yes I'm right!" is not a valid justification.

As to "asking for another editor"...Wiki is an open project. This is not "your" personal article. If you intend to continue to violate the Wiki rules by adding inappropriate information to the encyclopedia, you can be sure that either I or another editor will step in to rectify the situation. DanielEng 22:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I was referring to my source, Daniel, not you. Part of living in the American society and Coporate America ASKING for clarification. And I didn't "violate" anything so to speak.70.185.125.101 01:14, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

If I misunderstood your point about asking another editor, my mistake. However, I notice you still have not answered any of the questions asked about this content. If you want to include something in an article, you need to be able to back it up with a good argument for its inclusion.

I've pointed out several areas in which you have violated Wiki policy--namely, trying to add inappropriate content, uncivil language, personal attacks, linking to unlicensed content, linking to adult content, etc. Those aren't my personal decrees, they're Wiki policies. I've linked to the relevant Wiki policy pages for you to read, but you seem to have ignored them.

Also...going back through the history, I see that this was NOT the first time you had attempted to add inappropriate sexual content to this article. [4]. Again, I ask, why are you repeatedly trying to add inappropriate content to an article about a kids' show?! DanielEng 03:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

You're lying. After you somewhat told me that it was "inappropiate" I backed off, which you should do too, I left it as that and went on about my business.70.185.125.101 04:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

• sigh* Telling someone "you're lying" is considered a personal attack on this site. Just so you know. If you don't like what someone's said, you can't just accuse them of lying. And for the record, everything I've said here has been backed up with Wiki policy. I haven't lied about anything; I've attempted to discuss this rationally. That doesn't seem to be working.

If you've finally decided to back off and not add inappropriate material to the page, I will leave this discussion here. However, I really would urge you to find the time to read and understand the Wiki policy pages on Civility, proper content and Personal attacks. If you continue to be uncivil, you will likely find that you will have clashes with other editors on other pages. I'm sure that's not the experience you want on Wiki. DanielEng 04:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

...

Nice try ignoring everything I was referring in the statement before I said you were lying. That's life, if you're a liar you a liar. (What you going to do when you're proven false out there in the real world? Tell them oh i never lied because Wiki says so and so). i wasn't referring to anything here but to a situation and you once again conviently looked over it. I said nothing was wrong with following Wiki policy's, do you not understand that? To that last part I agree with you.70.185.125.101 05:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Once again, you're making personal attacks. There's nothing here I lied about, so I'm not sure what was supposed to be "proven false". As to your previous comment, I'm not sure how "living in America" has anything to do with anything in this article. The edit I brought up had your IP address on it; did I pull it out of thin air? I asked you to explain your position, you repeatedly refused to do so and acted in an uncivil fashion. I said you were violating Wiki policies and I showed you why. When you were given facts, you started making rude remarks.

I'm not going to continue engaging in this little battle of yours. Once again, though, I'd advise you to stop being rude and uncivil in your remarks in future. If you continue this way, you'll likely find yourself in one dispute after the next.DanielEng 05:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

See, Daniel you proved my point again. I was speaking meteophorically not literally.70.185.125.101 06:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

November 17, 2006 EDIT

I hope you made the effort in including the other stuff that was listed. For what I can see, it looks good and you included the other I posted but you deleted, Daniel,. the stuff I posted about Hollywood Reporter doing an article for the 100th episode back in 1989.70.185.125.101 16:48, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Current trivia edits

One more plea for people to STOP adding non-notable, irrelevant trivia to the page. Junking it up with every "little known fact" does not contribute to the article. Casting notes about non-notable actors are not suitable for this page. Every show has actors who were cast and then fired/axed/whatever. Nobody cares about it. Also, this page is about the SHOW, NOT the actors in the show.

Please do not trivia unless you can give valid reasons for its inclusion as well as a SOURCE that is online and accessible to any other editor who wants to check your facts. DanielEng 15:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Archiving

I archived the old Talk Page because it was getting too long, and was really just filled with personal attacks and bickering. Hopefully, the clean space will lead to constructive comments. DanielEng 03:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Michelle Watada

In the Trivia Section: "Some fans claim that an unknown performer named Michelle Watada was allegedly originally cast in the 1989 season" Why is this important? Who is Michelle Watada? A google search for her only produces this exact same quote. I'm sure that there were a lot of people originally cast... catgirl667 19 July 2007

It's not at all important, you're right. The person doesn't even have an IMDB entry, and nobody really cares. The only reason it's there is because I grew tired of fighting with the IP trolls who insisted on putting it, and other irrelevant information, in the article and became abusive when it was removed. Which is why the trivia exists and has grown out of hand; all the good editors who have worked on this have essentially been driven away by the trolls and aren't keeping up with it anymore. If you'd like to give it a try, good luck. DanielEng 18:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't speak for an entire group either. DE. Alot of the trivia is out of hand? Daniel, don't sit up there and start telling tales. You're the only one I see besides Vicky and I frequently edit this entry.

Catgirl, the point I was trying to make is that a lot of people we know have been cast on this series. Michelle goes by another name anyway. Last I check it was M. Watada James and/or LaDonna W. James.199.80.117.25 15:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

We're not going back into this realm of personal attacks, Rocky. You've been blocked quite a few times before, and it can happen again. The fact that you know some anonymous and irrelevant person doesn't mean they should be in the Wiki entry, but we've been through this before. We've also been through the entire "the article shouldn't have a trivia section" routine before, but hey, you've made it very clear you're more interested in making this a poorly written personal fanpage than an encyclopedia article. You want to junk up the article, be my guest, I don't care and eventually another editor will come along and delete it all as rubbish anyway. As to 'telling tales,' you go ahead and look at how many editors have tried this page and given up. I'm not particularly editing this anymore, I'm just trying to weed out the most ridiculous stuff. DanielEng 19:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Whatever you say, Danny. If you're not "editing" the stuff out you don't know then don't comment. personal attacks? so what are you a baby now? I just said don't lie. how is that a personal attack?199.80.117.25 21:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

With a Twinkle in his Eye

I placed the trivia there for this reason and rewatching the episode then reading its supports this fact and the trivia. Here's the source if we can post video links: 199.80.117.25 15:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

You can't post YouTube links to broadcast television programs, no. Copyright infringement. According to the website you like to cite so often, the summary for that episode is "The kids just can't find ways to keep from quarreling, until a mysterious person drops by." There's nothing about abuse there, sorry, and if you think there is, it's your own original research.

Also, this is the third time you've tried to put something sexual into this article. This isn't the place to talk about the "subtle nature of pedophilia." Again, I question why you seem to be so interested in putting stuff of this nature on this page. DanielEng 19:29, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

What the hell? Did you not look at the commentary I was referring you too? Don't make me out to be a pervert, no. (Get angry at Kisensation). I don't care what the episode was about I just read the commentary and thought it derserved to be placed here, dude. My god. I question your intention as you're the one who started the article. 199.80.117.25 21:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

• yawn* You know, you're really getting boring. If you can't edit and interact here without throwing tantrums and making personal attacks, you'll just be blocked again. I'd really think you'd have learned that by now.

As to your contributions to the article, you want me to pull up the diffs? They're there in the history, in case you've conveniently forgotten them: [5]

[6] [7]

Those are all you. And you are the only one, barring the random IP trolls, who has made edits of this nature. Care to explain them, particularly the third one? DanielEng 21:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Can't we all just get along? Also, I only remember making the first one. wasn't trying to be perverted so don't friggin' blame me, dude. User:199.80.117.25|199.80.117.25]] 21:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, unless there are a bunch of folks named Rocky (you answered to the name above) who edit exactly the same pages in the same style, all those edits were you. Especially since you just admitted above that you made the original Watada edit, which came from a different IP address, and because your current IP is very similar to another that edited the same pages, but is now permanently blocked from editing.

Hey, though, if you have in fact turned over a new leaf and are ready to work on Wiki, go to it. Nobody will hold you back from making positive contributions, and they're always appreciated by the community. DanielEng 02:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem.199.80.117.25 14:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Series Highlight

Is it alright if we include a section in the main article on this? I think it will be worthwile as most of us grew up on the series and know which ones did and didn't stick out.199.80.117.25 16:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be a lovely idea for a fan site, but not for an encyclopedia article like Wiki. The problem with a "series highlights" type section is that it's based on fans' opinions and that fails the WP:NPOV and WP:NOR guidelines. If you can find a source (as in a newspaper article, industry article, etc....NOT a fan site like KI.us) saying that a particular episode had a really high Nielsen rating, controversy or critical reaction, that might be able to be worked into the existing body of the article, but a section on highlight episodes isn't workable. Perhaps it's the sort of idea you'd like to pitch over at KI.us. DanielEng 20:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Hawaii

I removed the statement saying "The State of Hawaii initially decided not to air the regular version but in 2001 started to show the series beginning with Season 2 all the way through Season 8" because states don't make decisions about whether a syndicated television series gets shown in the state. The decision is made by the television stations. At any rate, the show had much of its run on cable television, so it wouldn't even have been necessary for anyone local in Hawaii to decide whether to show the series -- it would just have come with the Disney Channel. --Metropolitan90 06:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

All did their own vocals?

Question about the following phrase (disputed part in bold):

All of the members of the cast were strong singers and performed their own vocals

As I am typing this, a video I was watching on YouTube is ending from 1988; and there were some people questioning whether Richie Shoff actually did any of his own singing (to be precise, recorded the vocals himself) or not. WAVY 10 Fan 13:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know, all of them did do their own vocals, yes. Most of the KI kids did other voiceover/singing work outside of the show, and since none of them were star names, I doubt they would have cast them just to hire someone else to dub them over. The singing was obviously recorded in the studio and lip-synched during the shooting of the scenes, but they're lip-synching to their own vocals. DanielEng 15:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Weird, isn't it?199.80.117.25 16:25, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

That's pretty much always how it's done when they film a music video or someone doing a musical performance in a TV show or film. DanielEng

Cast Summary (season by season)

It looks like someone started a season by season cast list and gave up. I am not even sure if this is for Kids, Inc. I removed it, here it is:

Cast Season 1 1972 and 1973

Mason Johnson Danny Giblins Alex Velletri Nic Armour Fred (Lucas Cruikshank) Alexander Jhin Alex Lewis Will Ferguson Anna Champman Ariana Crispino Sasha Simons Nagawettee Simons Lindsay Hopes Kelly Hopes Luci (Leah Gloria) Kathy Richards Charlie Hilton Elroy Jasons Selena Gomez and Demi Lavoto

Season 2 (Last Season) 1985 and 1987

Frances, Rachel, Richard, Alex V., Alex L., Will F., Lindsay, Kelly, Luci, Eric, Fred, Tony, Kevin, Carly Meyer, Sam Kokomoor, Greg Cooper, Ariana C., Mason, Demi, and Selena

Special Guests

Mae Serfransky Paige Turner Katherine Aristi Alicia Moroyoqui Seda Sahin and Alana Chafee —Preceding unsigned comment added by DFS (talk • contribs) 20:40, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

thats for something else, silly.74.241.94.85 (talk) 20:27, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

The Unofficial Kids Incorporated Show Music/Video Page!, Facebook, and TV.com

Kids Incorporated Music played at the end of every episode and Brittany Murphy wasn't a Cast Member in 1992 as she was a Guest Star. May she Rest In Peace. To see the add for Rappin' Rockin' Barbie y'all can see it on YouTube. For proof y'all can go to YouTube. The Unofficial Kids Incorporated Show Music/Video Page!, Facebook, and TV.com provides information about "Kids Incorporated" that Wikipedia doesn't have. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.7.184.200 (talk) 15:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)