Talk:Jesé/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Cloudz679 (talk · contribs) 13:35, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• I will undertake the review on this article. C679 13:35, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
• fn27 reporting as dead in the checklinks tool. One link to Marca needs to be disambiguated. No issues with copyvio.
• "club career" section: lots of prose issues including grammar and mixed metaphor, some of which follow: "Jesé made his senior debut with the Real Madrid Castilla side a on 16 January 2011", "He made his unofficial debut with the main squad", "his first official goal", "2–4 away loss", " After the match Jesé dedicated the occasion of his debut to his family", "The following year, on 24 March", "Jesé himself spoke out against his lack of senior game", "break his way into the first team", "speculation that he could be on the move", "the first of his three La Liga goals for the the season", "Jesé struggled to break back into the first team following his injury, though", "Jesé remained in Madrid, however", "He found competition for places tough, though", "in seek of regular first team football", "departing with no fewer than five winners' medals", "penalty-spot". Redundancy through imitation, in particular the end of the RM section and the beginning of the PSG one. Unsupported assertions, e.g. the final paragraph of the PSG section. Much of this opening part of the article reads like a sports commentary and careful work is needed to bring this up to GA standard.
• The "international career" section lacks a reference in the first sentence. The prose needs some tightening e.g. "was awarded the Golden Boot for the tournament's top goalscorer", "in an eventual quarterfinal exit at the hands of Uruguay", "received the Bronze Boot for the third best scorer of the tournament", "full side manager Vicente del Bosque", "However, in March, following the rupturing of his anterior cruciate ligament while playing for Real Madrid, his chances of attending the tournament were ended, with the manager described the situation as "a blow", "Due to his eight months injury", "in which Spain lost 2–1". Other parts need work too, e.g. "His form at the tournament drew praise from various media houses with journalist Guillem Balagué claiming he was better than Real Madrid's new world-record signing Gareth Bale was at the same age". The meaning and/or significance of this claim is not clear. The section does not adequately highlight that his nation won the 2012 championship, which is crystal clear in the article's lead.
• The "style of play" section notes his favoured position is on the wing, but there is nothing supporting this within the citation. Next sentence, part "and regularly switched flanks due to his ability to use both feet" not in the citation there at all. Same section, sentence "Following his promotion to Real Madrid's the first team in 2013, manager Carlo Ancelotti played him in a winger position, often cutting inside from the wing both with the ball and without, to create chances and score goals.[66]" reference does not support promotion to first team, grammatical error "Real Madrid's the first team", second half of the sentence is unsupported and appears not to make sense.
• The fn supporting statistics for the Cup do not include anything from 11-12 for the Castilla team. For the "other" column, footnotes in Good Articles usually specify which type of match is denoted with in applicable cells. "Last updated" value in inbox is incorrect. National team stats there are not supported with a reference.
• The "personal life" section doesn't have sentence attribution, but just two references at the end of the paragraph. Please clarify what supports what.
• Uff, that's a lot to work on. Criteria 3, 4 and 5 are met. I will check criteria 2 in further detail and 6 after the above has been addressed. Putting review "On hold" pending changes. C679 14:53, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
• One more, there is nothing to support the assertion that "El Pilar" was one of his youth clubs.C679 14:56, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Edits in line with the above

I will look to complete the above by Friday at the latest

• Point 2 : Marca disambiguated and dead link removed and replaced with active links.
• Final point : Made mention of and inserted reference to El Pilar in 'Early Career' paragraph.
• Point 2 on Club Career : I have removed grammatical errors and redundancies and looked to improved structure and use of metaphors. I have edited each of the above points in inverted commas separately and indicated the changes in the edit summary. The only one that I can remember leaving was "the first of his three La Liga goals for the the season". What is the issue with this particular line?
  • Double "the". Also one other occurrence in the current version of the article. C679 12:51, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
• Point 6 - DISCUSS: Infobox has been updated. Stats re Cup are not supported but are accurate. Please see link (http://www.transfermarkt.com/jese/leistungsdaten/spieler/134936/plus/0?saison=2011). I can not include Transfermarkt as a ref though as it is not recognized by Wikipedia as a source. Furthermore, regarding "Other", reference is now only made to the Club World Cup. I don't see the need to have it cited at the top and again in the individual season. I have also found that the vast majority of football pages are not referenced when it comes to national team stats in the infobox and don't think it to be a prerequisite - see FA Thierry Henry.
  • Happy with infobox update. Other appearance section is fine. How do you know whether the stats are accurate if you don't have a reliable source? Stats need to be referenced per WP:UNSOURCED. If Henry's article has unreferenced statistics, these may be tagged and then ultimately removed. That article was last reviewed over 7 years ago so it is possible that there are multiple issues. Anyway. Please add RS or remove stats. C679 12:51, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
• Point 4 on International Career : Made necessary changes based on the problems you highlighted. I have, however, not made any edit to the sentence regarding Guillem Balagué. The suggestion was that Jese could be as good, if not better than the world's most expensive player, Gareth Bale.
  • Fair enough but the particular wording "praise from various media houses" brings WP:WEASEL to mind. Please address. C679 12:51, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
• Point 5 on Style of Play : Added necessary references as requested, fixed grammatical error and tried to make last sentence clearer. Mention is made of Jese's promotion to the first team earlier in the article - I did not find it necessary to repeat it in this section. Liam E. Bekker (talk) 19:58, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
• Point 7 on Personal life : Corrected sentence attribution. Please note that I also added a sentence on his musical career.

Alright Cloudz679, thank you very much for reviewing the article. I appreciate the effort. I've gone over all of the points you raised and made comment of the changes above. I imagine we'll bounce back and forth a few times but I've already put in quite a bit of work so I don't mind having to do some more. Let me know what you think of the changes and how the article currently stands. Thanks again, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 20:09, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• @Liam E. Bekker: Thank you. I have set three questions within your wording above. Also, what makes sportsmax.tv a reliable source? I tried clicking on their "About us" section, which was down, and the "Terms of use" and "Privacy policy", which didn't work. Separately, the sentence "1 of his 9 league appearances for the club" should use words rather than numerals per MOS:NUMERAL.
• Images are appropriately licensed and have good captions, meeting criterion 6. This is coming along nicely. C679 12:51, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
  • @Cloudz679: Both instances of duplication have been corrected. Regarding the career stats, I've had a look around and can't find any sources to verify the Castilla Cup stats. Per your advice, I have removed the stats and adjusted the totals accordingly. I've also fixed the WP:WEASEL issue by removing mention of "media houses" and referring simply to the journalist cited. Lastly, I have replaced Sports Max with a more reliable source and changed numerals to words. Let me know if there is anything else that still needs doing. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 14:17, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
    • Any further thoughts Cloudz679? Liam E. Bekker (talk) 14:32, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Further thoughts

• @Liam E. Bekker: Good. A few further thoughts, but it's nearly there:
• the lead is a little thin; it doesnt mention all of the titles he has won as a player. perhaps something else could be added too.

added all of his titles and made a bit more mention of his success with Spain U19.

• “His form at youth level for the club saw him attract interest from La Liga sides Espanyol, Málaga and Barcelona” - ref says Mallorca, which is a different club

Error on my part. Replaced Malaga with Mallorca.

• “In July 2011, Jesé was called up by first-team manager José Mourinho for the club's pre-season tour of the United States.” seems to be a bit of unnecessary jargon here.

What I've tried to do in this sentence is distinguish between the reserve side and the first team and highlight that it was non-competitive football.

• “He returned to the first team on 12 December” a little misleading as he hadn’t made his competitive debut at this point.

have tweaked the sentence to avoid misleading.

• “The following season, following criticism that players from the Castilla were not being given a fair chance, Mourinho stated that it was difficult to do so as the senior side played a different style to the reserves, and highlighted the position Jesé was being played in as one that did not exist in the main squad” This is very wordy.

changed the wording a bit and broke it into two sentences.

• “the guarantee he would receive significant playing time” not really the same as “some playing time” which is the wording in the reference.
• “he was a manager who surrounded himself with players who had already made it” this is too close to the original wording (ref1: “a coach who surrounds himself with players that have already made it” / ref2: “a coach who surrounds himself with players who are already made”)

both points above done. Changed "significant" to "more" and changed sentence to read “he was a manager who surrounded himself with players who had already made their name”

• it’s unclear to the uninitiated why “Spanish player” links to “Zarra Trophy”. It’s also not referenced that he was the top-scoring Spaniard in the league.

Clarified sentence and added reference to Zarra Trophy in the body of the article and in the Honours section.

• “his lack of first team opportunity” ?

changed to read "lack of game time with the first team"

• “a 1–2 loss at Barcelona.” 2–1 loss, as it was away
• “named by Daily Mirror” the DM
• “Following his promotion to Real Madrid's first team in 2013, manager Carlo Ancelotti…“ avoid “his” here

all three of the above have been corrected.

• A few of the references seem to refer to him as Jese Rodriguez. Do you think it's lead-worthy? That's all from me, for now. Thanks, C679 09:09, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

I do. Have added it in the opening line.

@Cloudz679: I think I've ticked off everything you've mentioned there. Have a look and let me know what you think. Also there's no tick for the fourth point above but I have left a comment. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 12:02, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

@Liam E. Bekker: All ok. Regarding the fourth point, you may want to merge the two sentences there into one. "Call up" is football jargon and not really used appropriately or necessarily in this case. He played a game on a tour, basically. It appears everything else is satisfactory. Thanks, C679 15:33, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

@Cloudz679: Done. Replaced "called up" with "selected" and merged the sentences as suggested. Liam E. Bekker (talk) 15:42, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

@Liam E. Bekker: and the NT stats in the infobox? C679 13:33, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

@Cloudz679: What of them? Liam E. Bekker (talk) 15:56, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Looks like WP:OR at the moment... C679 16:02, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Have added a ref now @Cloudz679: Liam E. Bekker (talk) 05:35, 8 January 2017 (UTC)