Talk:Jean Langenus

Merge with John Langenus

Hi. After creating the above article, I then discovered this when planning a redirect. Why I do not propose to ask for deletion of the above is the fact that there is proof in print (see that article's references) that he was not christened "Jean" or "Johannes" at all. He was given an Anglicised version, which is, naturally, "John". I believe that the two could easily be combined to complete a better picture of the man. I am also a little concerned at the line at the bottom of this article "-- appreciation to Guido de Windt; Belgian Football Association, and Andrea Rose of Ghent for his assistance in this entry --", which do not conform to Wikipedia style or verifiability guidelines at all. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I added the fullname citing the source and specifying that I wasn't sure about that. There should be some investigation. --necronudist (talk) 17:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a detective agency. We should stick to what is verifiable via the internet, if not, via a reliable checkable printed source. I know where the name "Johannes" comes from. It has been lifted from the Weltfussball.de site. That's a German language site, so of course they call him Johannes - that's German John or Jean. But it has absolutely nothing to do with his Christian or birth name. What needs to be established is the true choice between the Belgian (French) or the English versions. "Guido de Windt; Belgian Football Association, and Andrea Rose of Ghent" may well tell you that it's the Belgian version, but how are they checkable sources according to Wikipedia policy and guidelines? Should we phone one of them up? Do we get email addresses to aid us in verifying? I would appreciate more input on this, and from as many editors as possible. Thanks. ^{Copied to Talk:John Langenus} Ref ^(chew)(do) 01:28, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I am lacking firm consensus here, so I will have to take the considerable silence on this matter as some kind of mandate to go ahead. Now is the time to step in and object, as I intend to perform the merge within the next week. Thanks. ^{Copied from Talk:John Langenus} Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Notes during merge to John Langenus

• Name was Anglicised (see source in "John" article), so other translations of John removed; re-directs from the translations planned.
• Sourced place of birth as Berchem. "Jean" article says Bercham - that's in Malaysia! Verifiable source available, place of birth: Berchem.
• No sourced place of death. "Jean" article says Antwerpen (sic. for en article!) - no verifiable source available, discounted, place of death: left blank.
• Rest of lead-in: "John" article lead-in covers what is said in "Jean" article lead-in, and adds more, and all in fewer words. "John" article lead-in kept.
• Integrated anecdote and reference in "Jean" article regarding failing his refs exam.
• Section Uruguay in "Jean" article: completely unsourceable - the external link to "fifaworldcup.yahoo.com" now goes nowhere (Yahoo! have wiped all those records). Unfortunately discounted - section not merged into "John" article.
• Section 1928 Summer Olympics in "Jean" article: matches sourceable, but too much original research making many assumptions (or perhaps anecdotal, taken from unverifiable sources i.e. Guido de Windt and Andrea Rose, incorrectly credited at the bottom of the "Jean" article). Pared back to just the basic verifiable details.
• Section 1930 World Cup in "Jean" article: includes some unreferenced and unverifiable "story-telling". Otherwise, core information is contained within "John" article, plus more match detail. This section discounted in favour of the "John" article version of the 1930 World Cup.
• 1934 World Cup and 1938 World Cup not covered at length in "Jean" article - sections on these in "John" article retained as covering these phases of his life more fully. Other confusing (?) info relating to Brian Glanville and Langenus quotes discounted as not verified and hard to decipher properly, and the date of retirement is also not verifiable, so it is also discounted. Retained info on his three authored books.
• Removed succession box which doesn't work - there was no-one "Before" him as a FIFA World Cup referee, and it is also silly to name three in the "After" box!
• Added cat from "Jean" article to "John" article.
• And finally ... removed erroneous "credits" to Guido de Windt and Andrea Rose per WP:VERIFY!

Ref ^(chew)(do) 22:41, 18 March 2008 (UTC)