Talk:Israeli war crimes/Archive 1

Archive 1

Human Rights Abuses

To be clear, does 'Allegations of war crimes against Israel' mean, Reports of crimes carried out by Israel, or, Reports of crimes carried out against Israel? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.30.22.247 (talk) 18:10, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Rename it

Renaming it will certainly focus on the confirmed war crimes. The unconfirmed can be labeled as such. 2003:ED:1F44:EA00:7DB4:78D9:271B:7ED8 (talk) 19:24, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

See the discussion above. It should have been closed yesterday, but no one seems willing to close it. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 23:58, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Significant misrepresentation of citation in first paragraph of 2023 war.

"Numerous allegations of war crimes were levied against Israel for its actions against civilians during its 2023 war with Hamas. The UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory stated there was "already clear evidence" of war crimes and would share evidence with judicial authorities, including the International Criminal Court's authorities currently investigating war crimes committed in the Occupied Territories."

This paragraph clearly indicates that the UN commission had clear evidence of Israeli war crimes. Yet their statement does not state they had evidence of war crimes perpetrated by Israel. 37.29.154.115 (talk) 00:37, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

“We also strongly condemn Israel’s indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza, comprising over 2.3 million people, nearly half of whom are children. They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for,” they said. ... “This amounts to collective punishment,” the UN experts said. “There is no justification for violence that indiscriminately targets innocent civilians, whether by Hamas or Israeli forces. This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime.”

There is already clear evidence that war crimes may have been committed in the latest explosion of violence in Israel and Gaza, and all those who have violated international law and targeted civilians must be held accountable for their crimes, the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem and Israel, said today ... The Commission is gravely concerned with Israel’s latest attack on Gaza and Israel’s announcement of a complete siege on Gaza involving the withholding of water, food, electricity and fuel which will undoubtfully cost civilian lives and constitutes collective punishment. nableezy - 03:36, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Manipulative misrepresentation and hiding of absolute facts

The initial paragraph initially said:

Over the course of several decades, the Israel Defense Forces, the military branch of the state of Israel, has been subject to various allegations of war crimes. The government of Israel has denied any wrongdoing, and neither Israel nor the IDF have never been formally charged with committing war crimes.

This paragraph has been edited to remove the *factual* sentence that is key - IDF has never been formally charged. The entire paragraph was written in a non-neutral way, to make it seem as if IDF *has* commited war-crimes, while again, it has never been formally charged. It is manipulative and attempting to present the situation as different than it is, as if it is factual that the IDF has committed war crimes, while it was never formally charged nor have these allegations been proven. In fact, the entire page does not including any mention of this fact - that IDF has never been charged or proven to have committed war crimes. Wikipedia, please be neutral and display facts. Let people make their own opinions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Advance512 (talk • contribs) 03:14, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

They haven't been charged because Israel is not a signatory to the icc, does not recognise the icc and therefore any charge against them is futile. What they are doing does not pass any pub test. 58.179.91.109 (talk) 09:18, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

References

What do you think formally charged means for war crimes? What state is "formally charged" with war crimes? Israel has however been accused of war crimes by UN fact finding commissions, by the International Court of Justice, by human rights organizations, by academic sources. But Israel is not a member of the ICC, so until Palestine joined there was no formally charging Israel with anything. nableezy - 03:33, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

This is a false claim. Here's an example from the article showing why:

In November 2010, two Givati Brigade Staff Sergeants were convicted by the Southern Command Military Court of using a Palestinian boy as a human shield. The soldiers had been accused of forcing nine-year-old Majed R. at gunpoint to open bags suspected of containing bombs in the Tel al-Hawa neighborhood.

The statement that the government of Israel has denied any wrongdoing is not true, and very much misleading. Convicting, in this case, two of their own soldiers, is an affirmation of wrongdoing. Moreover, if you're talking about charges from the ICC, they charge individuals, not nation states or entire militaries.

Lastly, that claim isn't supported by the source provided. Most of what it discusses are Israel's refusals to cooperate with international investigations into its wartime conduct and treatment of Palestinians. The line ignored what the source actually said and wrote something else. entropyandvodka | talk 18:07, 29 October 2023 (UTC)