Talk:Iravan/GA1

GA Review

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Hi. I will be reviewing this article. Kaguya-chan (talk) 21:10, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

The article is somewhat well written, except in a few places, is stable, uses what seems to be reliable sources, images look fine and seems to be neutral. However...

• Source needed for paragraph in Etymology and other names that starts with "Iravan is known as Aravan in South India."
• "Aravan is deified" (in same section) is confusing. Revered as a deity might be a clearer substitution...
• "heroic self mutilation" (in Origins of the legend) sounds POV
• What is "The tale of Aravan's sacrifice was first developed in Parata Venpa by Peruntevanar (9th century Tamil author) - the earliest surviving Tamil version of the Mahabharata and is later retold by Villiputuralvar in his Makaparatam (14th century) and Nallapillai (18th century)" talking about?
• Who is the "the Goddess" referred to in Origins of the legend?
• "Pandavas (Arjuna and his brothers) can succeed in the Mahabharata war" Succeed as in win the war?
• Is there a source for the sentence starting w/ "Aravan kalappali is annually staged in Melattur...." ?
• Was the Kauravas the cousins of Pandavas?
• What does "Aravan agreed for the Kalappali for Pandavas" mean?

Will finish looking article over soon. :) Kaguya-chan (talk) 21:50, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the review.

• "Iravan is known as Aravan in South India." The repeated use of name "Aravan", as in all references, in Tamil sources is the reference of the statement. Hiltebeitel has references to prove Iravan = Aravan.
• "deified" I meant transformed into a deity. Done
• As the ref says, it is a "glorification" of heroic self mutilation. Those who performs "self-mutilation" were revered as heroes in Tamil tradition
• reworded. Better?
• "the Goddess" refers to the monotheistic notion of a supreme goddess in Shaktism.
• Done
• The reference at end of para is ref for emtire para

--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 04:54, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

• the Kauravas were the cousins of Pandavas
• "Aravan agreed for the Kalappali for Pandavas" - "Kalappali ("sacrifice to the battlefield"), a term found only in the Tamil version of Mahabharata, is a ritual performed before the battle to ensure victory." reworded.--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 07:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Probably words such as, "heroic" should be placed in quotes, to indicate that it is the opinion of a sect / author. Without quotes, it sounds a bit POVish. --Nvineeth (talk) 07:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, second part of review (sorry about that!) and more questions:

1. What does "Aravan, after stripped his flesh," (in The three boons) mean?

 Done "after being stripped of his flesh" by Nvineeth. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 14:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

1. Tried to reword sentence "The first and second boon contradict each other, but the cults have their own explanations", but managed to mess it up. Maybe "The Kuttantavar cult explains the contadictions in the first and second boons as... However, the Draupadi cult disagrees, believing that..."
2. "Aravan is deified as Kuttantavar" Er, worshipped as Kuttantavar? --  Done, substituted the clearer meaning for this.
3. Later on about the rooster sacrifices, "since their sacrifice (cutting) is banned" should probably be reworded. How about, "because cutting them is banned." --  Done reworded
4. "Then, when the chariot turns towards the weeping ground “alukalam”, formerly roosters that were sacrificed before the chariot wheels." The chariot wheels kill the roosters or were they already dead? --  Done reworded. The "formerly roosters ..." part can be removed without much information loss., I think this was the third time in the article that were stressing that "sacrifice is banned".
5. What is a paratiyar (in Rituals of the Kuttantavar cult)?

• • ... means Mahabharata-reciter, present in the article.

Overall, this is a really interesting article but sort of confusing. According to the Help Desk, the stories about Aravan should be in present tense because the story is still happening as you read it (if that made any sense). I'll ask for a second opinion on this article. :) Kaguya-chan (talk) 21:24, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

1. paratiyar means Mahabharata-reciter (present in the article now). --Nvineeth (talk) 10:52, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Nvineeth. :) Kaguya-chan, thanks for your work. Regarding the "historical present": present tense in narrative should often be interpreted as historical (as Wikipedia Help Desk friendly person says); however narrative does not have to be expressed in the historical present. Past tenses are also OK, and present perfects will be almost inevitable. I'll get through copyediting the whole article over the next few days. Best Alastair Haines (talk) 12:14, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Even I faced this same problem: past or present. I started with the present tense and then got confused and used past in a few places. Finally, I chose past for consistency. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 14:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry for taking so long. I think the article now fulfills the GA citeria and will pass it. :) Good job! Kaguya-chan (talk) 18:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)