Talk:Iraqi Biradari

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Stop Removing Data if you're personally not sure of your facts

Someone repeatedly keeps removing everything, citations included, from the page. These edits imply that there's no definitive proof of the Iraqi Biradari existing in India or elsewhere. This is: a) baseless; b) infuriating as the person who edits is from Japan and has No Idea about the cultural composition of India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaynaholic x (talk • contribs) 06:51, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Untitled

The allegation that the word `Irâqî comes from `Arqî is erroneous and the origin of this fallacy lies in a derrogatory myth levied against this group of people. As the Irâqî Birâdarî are Muslims it was an insult forged by rival and/or enemy castes that these people were descended from liquor traders who used to ferment essences (`Arq in Arabic) of various sources. Alcohol consumption is forbidden and considered immoral in Islam.

There are numerous graves existent in Northern India to this day of various ancestors of the Iraqis and their gravestones are written in Arabic and/or Farsi (in some instances both) and even give locations of where in Iraq the elder was from. It appears that many of these people came from Shi`ite families of Southern Iraq who had converted to Sunnism.

Iraqis are more widespread than you may have thought

I have modified the article to include the Iraqis of Pakistan as well as other states in North India. Perhaps, the original author(s) did not perceive the vast area throughout which the Iraqi Biradri has proliferated. The original entry suggested that this was a group centered primarily in UP and this is not entirely true. There are a large number of Iraqis in Bihar, Jharkhand, Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, Pakistani Sindh, and elsewhere.

When using percentages such as 99.9%, etc you must cite references for this otherwise it is poor Wikipedia practice.

Most Iraqis speak Urdu while Bhojpuri is only spoken amongst a very dwindling number of rural members of this group in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar.

Most Iraqis acknowledge their origins from Iraq while the original entry, for some reason, seemed to distance the Iraqis from this widely accepted theory of origin. Strangely, the derogatory yarn of alcohol distillers was used but softened to refer to sugar caners. The origin with the incomprehensible word `Arqi is not possible. In Farsi the term would be `Arq Kash and not `Arqi which no speaker of Arabic, Farsi or Classical Urdu would ever use as it is not morphologically correct in any language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.54.218.111 (talk) 19:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Sources?

How about some references for this article? 94.192.38.247 (talk) 11:16, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Please stop mutilating the Wiki for your strange ethnic biases

Someone came in here and made everything about Bangladesh for some reason? There are Iraqis found in Bangladesh, but they are a tiny minority community there of very recent business migrants. The Iraqis are mainly concentrated in Pakistan and India.

The appeal for sources by the previous comment is important and will be heeded. In the meantime, please stop editing this without references. Next someone will say the Iraqis are a Chinese ethnic group because some Iraqi businessman who lives in Shanghai. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.136.104.21 (talk) 17:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

FOR THE 2ND TIME! STOP MUTILATING WITHOUT REFERENCES!

If there is one more single edition to this Wiki entry without a reliable reference I am reporting this to Wikipedia. STOP EDITING THE ARTICLE UNLESS YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WITH SOURCES TO ADD. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.136.104.21 (talk) 20:37, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Iraqi Biradari are Sunni Muslims

If this is deleted again it will be reported as vandalism. If you know of any references that document any other religious affiliation for the Iraqi Biradari then please present that. Remember, this article is NOT about the Iraqi Diaspora of the 20th and 21st Centuries. It is about the Iraqi BIRADARI who are an ethnic group living in Pakistan and India who are DESCENDED from Iraqis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fernando de Seville (talk • contribs) 01:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC) I am not claiming that iraqi biradri are not sunni muslims (mainly deobandi sect). In present era they are sunni muslims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.97.2.15 (talk) 05:04, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Warning

How's the hell asking for evidence of iraqi biradri. If he is christian give the evidence for the jesus christ exit ever. To whom we have to produce evidence, to a ordinary man to prove ourselves.These peoples doesn't exist for us and we exist for them. We don't have to prove ourselves, for any cheap and poor personality.

We have our sizra books and our seperate resedential areas in various parts of eastern U.P. We have burials and every historical evidence and above all, our genetic and D.N.A. tests, we are enlisted in ethnic group of Uttar Pradesh government, then also we does'nt exist. We give no much importance to these mad peoples and we doesn't exist for them and they are not existed for us.

Now give me evidence for the existence of Sheik, Saiyyad, Khan, Pathan, Sidiqqui, Mughal, Mirza that they exit even today. Do they have any similair genetic and DNA imprint or their exist any endogamous community for peoples with surnames like this.

Anybody, who has any question for our existence, first prove themselves, who they are and what they are and why we give them evidence for our existence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.97.120.155 (talk) 17:13, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Anjuman iraqi biradri

Iraqi biradri in pakistan are now not considered under iraqi ethnic group by iraqi biradri in india, because after 4 or 5 decades of migration, they started marrying in Ashrafia community(ex.Sheik, sayyiad, Khan, Pathan, Siddiqui, Mughal, Mirza)and punjabi muslims are now considered as ashrafiya muslims only. They are saying that biradri system occurs from father side, maybe. But this definition could not define ethnic group. DEFINITION OF ETHNIC GROUP: A community of unique or particular race with unique culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.97.113.65 (talk) 17:29, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

The records of migration of Iraqi Biradri from the presumed origin i.e. Ghazipur, U.P. India to Pakistan is an excellent work. Although arrival date in Karachi should fall somewhere after 1947, its inclusion in the records will make it a solid reference in the history of Iraqi Biradri. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.164.255.139 (talk) 22:49, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Conspiracy of encroaching history of pure Iraqi biradri

We are talking about only that portion of Iraqi biradri that are pure clans of our biradri and are mentioned in Sizra records of Iraqi biradri. We are not talking about that majority of peoples those have no records of their ancestors in sizra records.

A very big conspiracy is going on by some lobbies of various sects(maybe shia or barelvi or others) and other organizations to encroach and corrupt history & culture of pure Iraqi biradri.

These lobbies are putting a genetic report of SGPGIMS(Sanjay gandhi post graduate institue of medical science, Lucknow),that did genetic survey on whole Shia and Sunni community and not separately on pure clans of Iraqi biradri. This point is to be noted.

First these lobbies are trying to Mix pure Iraqi biradri(according to sizra) with Iraqi biradri of mixed orign who don't have any records or evidence of their ancestory.

After that, they try to connect us with some shia community of Gangauli region of Gazipur who are settled there about some 1500 B.C. as they are mentioning, long before Iraqi biradri settled in eastern U.P.

Thirdly, they are saying part of that shia community converted to sunni in the regime of Ibrahim Lodi in 15th century came to be known as Iraqi biradri.

Now their in no historical evidence of converting a portion of shia to sunni in 15th century throughout the history of Ibrahim Lodi. Second, Can anybody explain what is the reason that converted sunni's called them Iraqi biradri and not call themselves as saiyyad or sheik or simply sunni.Third question is why Shia of Gangauli region does'nt call them Iraqi Biradri. Instead they simply call them Shia.

Fourth question is why Sizra's records of Iraqi biradri have records of ancestory of about 200 hundred years only and Fifth thing is that these sizras are also clearly mentioning various places and time of arrival(about 200 years ago) and settlement in eastern U.P. and more on this, Why their ancestoral burials, residential sites are not more then 200 years if they are existing about 15th century B.C.

Last thing these lobbies are doing is they are putting a genetic report of SGPGIMS(Sanjay Gandhi Post Graduate Institute of Medical Science)Lucknow, which has done survey on whole shia and sunni community and not separately on Pure clans of Iraqi biradri.

Hence, trying to mix pure clans of Iraqi biradri with other sunni hybrid communities like Ashrafya Muslims (ex. Sheik, Saiyyad etc...)or themselves.

These lobbies are doing illegal encroachment to corrupt history and culture of a Ethnic group of Iraqi origin probably assyrians(old erek peoples) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.144.165 (talk) 17:54, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Genetic Tests suggest that common ancestors, among others, may belong to linguistic groups such as Indo-Aryan and Indo-Iranian as part of the proto-Iranian peoples as opposed to Assyrian people. The haplotype markers found in Iraqi Biradri include M560/Y40 and L657>Y6+ (23&Me and YSeq Companies). These markers and haplogroups form clades under Asian Z93>Z94>Z95, the Indo-European R1a genetic family of humans. The latter is found to be part of historic civilizations such as Mitanni, Medes, Persians and are present in Arab and Ashkenazi Levite Jews. Both M560 and L657-Y6 are present in South Asia, Near East, Central Asia; L657 is dominant in India and M560 is rare but both are present in Iraqi Biradri of Eastern U.P. It may be predicted that Iraqi population may resemble a founder effect and genetic drift due to some Iraqi connection during the Medieval historical time. Therefore Iraqi Biradri may show some genetic similarity, but not exactly, to a diversified West Asian/Middle Eastern population. . More research will confirm this hypothesis.

References

Who is this person being so belligerent?

Why is this person listed as unsigned getting so bellicose with phrases like "what the hells (sic)" about being pure Iraqi and getting so upset about proving Iraqis exist? Who questioned that they existed?

And, for your information, the census record is not called a "Sizra book". It's "Shajra".— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fernando de Seville (talk • contribs) 22:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Iraqi are from tribe of Bani Tamim

Everyone has different views regarding the origin of this clan in India. But as per the origin is concerned, we should look upon the scholar's views. Many of the scholars in Lar, Deoria district of India where Iraqis are in large number claim that their ancestors came from Sindh, Pakistan and before that they were in Iraq. The migration of Iraqis to Sindh is only recorded during Arab Invasion of Sindh in 712 AD and many were from the tribe of Tamim. Thus we can consider Iraqis of India to be from tribe of Bani Tamim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.201.6.145 (talk) 08:03, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

References

False claims of William Crooke, a British ethnologist

During 19th century, a British ethnologist and ICS officer, William Crooke wrote a book named Tribes and Castes of Oudh. In that he described Iraqis as sub-caste of Muhammadan Kalwars who converted to Islam from Hinduism. The research he did was just based on views of common people residing in villages. In his book he writes meaning of sayyid (arabic term for gentlemen) as a corruption of shaheed (arabic term of martyr). Similary he describes 'Iraqi' as a corruption of 'Raki' or 'Ranki'. Some hating castes must have misguided him about the origin of Iraqi biradri.No any genetic survey was done by him during those time and no any Iraqi scholar was asked about the origin of this tribe. Thus proving the research of Crooke, the false theories and claims. The genetic research now done by a renowned Iraqi ethnologist of New Delhi proves Iraqi biradri to have been migrated from Iraq and of Arab origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.201.121.61 (talk) 10:50, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

====Iraqis are not fair skinned====Admixture of South Asian/Indian blood?

This claim is totally false. If you do survey in Iraqi biradri, approximate 60% people are fair skinned and other 40% are dark skinned. Secondly, in southern Iraqi cities of Basrah, mostly Arabs of Nejd, Hejaz and other people from Arabian Peninsula live who migrated in 7th century. Iraqis came along with Muhammad bin Qasim from Basra as mentioned in early posts in 8th century AD.

Iraqis are from Shia Sayyids of Ghazipur

There is no evidence which supports this claim. If anyone has it regarding that then post it giving reference with a strong genealogical study else change the article with the previous 'Bani Tamim' theory as it has much evidence to support its claim. Please give references from a valid PDF file or a website to support this claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.219.50.97 (talk) 03:30, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Iraqi Biradri and the Spirit of Modern Scientific Inquiry including our Basic Faith

It is the responsibility of knowledgeable persons in a group of people (or Biradri in this case) to maintain a high ratio of the above-mentioned tradition to backwardness. The responsibility also includes because certain members need to be educated. It is the right of all members to inherit true knowledge, verifiable by up-to-date scientific methods, on subjects like population science, population genetics or DNA genealogy, as opposed to scandalous informations. It is 21st century, it is important that Biradri members had better take Genetic Tests by themselves as Ancestry project, and enjoy truthful results as soon as possible; oral gossips, caste panchayat tricks, and face book reports are not going to help accomplish any thing including ancestry of this rare population group of Iraqis of East U.P. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slari457 (talk • contribs) 08:21, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Appeal to Government/Medical Institutions

The Iraqi biradri organisations should appeal to government or any prominent medical institutions to conduct anthropological survey of Iraqi biradri and then come on conclusions. Beside some of Iraqis individually have had their genetic haplotype tests which revealed high intensity of Haplogroup JP209 found among Central Arabian Peninsula and southern Iraq.

Iraqis not interested in their Identity

Iraqis are not intein their history or origin. Some of them openly accept the fabricated story of being Arqi/Kalal converted from Hindu caste. Why? There is no research work done on Iraqis as population in recent times. The only publication on the subject is by William Crook and that is obsolete and falsely implicated; the Wikipedia information on Iraqi Biradri is like a fiction plot. It is logical that people are confused. Yes false conclusion alluded to as Kalal by Crooke, W is not disproved by any published paper until now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.164.255.137 (talk) 17:42, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Iraqi biradri, an infamous clan

Nobody knows about Iraqi Biradri, even many Muslims whom I have approached to get information about this clan don't know about this clan. There is a need to publish articles about Iraqi Biradri in famous Indian newspapers like Times of India, The Hindu etc.

How come Iraqi Biradri is infamous. If you see the Wikipedia, Biradri is defacto descendants of Sahaba in South Asia thru famous MBQ story, thanks to the writer of Wikipedia. On this thread Biradri may be some Arab and Indo-Iranian descendants mostly. This is described in detail in the link as follows: https://iraqiindiangroupancestry.squarespace.com

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.91.180.99 (talk) 11:51, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Slari457 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Who is this from Pakistan?

Somebody edited whole page like as if Iraqis are originally from Pakistan. Please take note of edits and help it to make like it was before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.176.164.141 (talk) 07:36, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Genetic Tests by Pure Iraqi Biradri Individuals of Eastern Uttar Pradesh

Please submit the results of Genetic Tests, Y-haplogroups and maternal haplogroups, if some one has taken a test recently. Pure Iraqis may be expected to carry Neolithic Near East Paternal J2, Indo- European as Indo-Aryan/Indo-Iranian R1a-Z93>Z94>Z95 haplogroups, or South Asian H and L haplogroups. Maternal haplogroups may be found as South Asian M3, R , U and possibly some from West Eurasian W/T/H haplogroups. Prices for the Tests have been reduced by major Testing Companies. Many individuals from the Pure Biradri is expected to afford such expenditure easily. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.246.73 (talk) 05:45, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

ON the Ancient Origins of Iraqi Biradri of Eastern Uttar Pradesh

The Ancient European Origins of an Iraqi individual is as follows: Mesolithic Hunter and Gatherers 00%, Neolithic Early Farmers 12%, Bronze age Metal-Age Invaders 65%, and Non European 23% (tested by FTDNA). Metal Age Invaders refers to migration wave of proto Indo-European (PIE), Yamnaya Horizon folks from north of Black sea, giving Yamnaya autosomal DNA to Europeans. Prior to this, Yamnaya folks possibly got Bronze metallurgy as a result of PIEans migration from Iranian Plateau. Thus the source of Bronze Invaders (possibly similar to Caucasian-Gedrosian autosomal DNA) in Europe, West Asia/South Asia is the Iranian Plateau. A high Bronze Metal DNA, therefore, has ancient ancestral links to Iran/Iraq.

Individuals from the Iraqi Biradri of Eastern UP therefore need to do more DNA tests in order to justify the work on the most recent common ancestors (TMRCA). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.246.73 (talk) 07:22, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Need to do Y-DNA (STR) tests by Biradri members of Eastern U.P., specifically North Americans and Middle East expats

Y-DNA 12 marker results from a biradri individual is as follows (by Family Tree DNA, FTDNA). Exact 12/12 matches include individuals from Ukraine, Poland, Russian Federation, Latvia, Romania etc.; 11/12 matches again include from Europe, Middle East, Ashkenazi Jews and India. Matches between this biradri individual and the aforementioned individuals do not seem to predict the Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) correctly, albeit common ancient ancestor(s)from Russian steppes linked to horse domestication and wheel cart discovery (thousands of years ago). This may also mean that genetic ancestry data bases seriously lack surnames such as Lari/Iraqi/Qureshi with origins in India and Pakistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.164.255.139 (talk) 00:58, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Distinguished facial features of Iraqis

Many Iraqis don't look like Indians. Many of them have large nose, small eyes and thick eyebrows. It is hard to find an Iraqi with small and thin eyebrows. Many of them have skin tone different to Indians as which i have observed. I have seen Iraqis with faces similar to people in Central Arabian Peninsula and Southern Iraq. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.220.24.98 (talk) 11:44, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Our rule is No original research, so personal observations such as these cannot be added to any of our articles. - Arjayay (talk) 11:48, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Admixture Population characterization of the Iraqi Biradri of Eastern Uttar Pradesh

Admixture analysis by Dodecad K12b calculator using autosomal DNA test data performed on a couple of Iraqi individuals by 23&Me and GEDmatch tool, the following results were found: population native to India (i.e. South Indian, ASI) 43.30%, West Asian/Near East proportion such as Gedrosia 30.9%, North European proportion 9 %, Southwest Asian 1.5%, Caucasus 6.74%, Atlantic-Med 1.5% and the rest with minor proportions such as Siberian, East Asia and South East Asia. Actually one of the admixed persons as a male sibling in the paternal half DNA shows about 10% Ancestral_West Asian proportion (as one of the earlier common ancestors from Iraq/North West Iran/or South Caucuses) in addition to 17.15-23% ancestral Indian proportion, possibly another common ancestor. The latter Indian proportion is noted in the maternal half of autosomal DNA and his DNA with out subtraction from father's DNA - MLDP World22 calculator. This suggests that some West Asian DNA stretch is retained as indicative of paternal common ancestor; Indian proportion is inherited from maternal ancestor.

It is noteworthy that similar derived admixture population proportions (i.e South Asian less than the West Eurasian) have been reported from other Uttar Pradesh Populations, more specifically U.P. Brahmans. This is supported by ANE admixture proportion calculated by Eurogenes_ANE K7: (ANE 29.39%, ASE 19.93%, WHG 2.99 and ENF 37.38%). It is reported in several genetic studies that Brahmin castes in U.P. are mainly carriers of Indo-European R1a1a, Neolithic Iranian J2 and South Asian R2 haplogrous; maternal haplogroups are mainly indigenous to South Asia. We believe that the Iraqi Biradri has a survival age of more than 700 years in Uttar Pradesh, holding our historical belief in place, and we find here a similarity between Biradri and others others around, specifically, U.P. Brahmins, by genetic distance lesser than the other castes including lower castes.; U.P. Brahmin caste is a long time residents of Uttar Pradesh (i.e. 4000-5 000 years old people). This indicates that Biradri has lost much of the ancestral Caucuses genetic content as opposed to less effect on its West Asian Gedrosian content including Northeast European. In fact, Near East populations such as Iran_Bandari closer to Larestan-Fars, and Kurd_SE, each as one of the 3/or the 4 ancestors in combination with North Indian reference groups, is implied for explaining the admixture results with minimal genetic distanc pointed out as above, when GedrosiaDNA-Near East K13 Oracle-4 Calculator was utilized (Lari surname under Biradri makes some sense !); Biradri has gained enough genetic material native to India as ASE possibly comparable to UP Brahmins after growing in East U.P. > 30-40 generations.

For the reason discussed above, a genetic study on Iraqi Biradri may not be attractive to geneticists world wide, as a great deal of research on Brahmins and for that matter Sunni and Shia Muslims of Uttar Pradesh has already been done. A project on Genetic Characterization of the Biradri should, however, be very interesting - working out its own unique genetic features. It is a challenge and is hoped that educated young men of Biradri can differ this from others including the inconsequential past issue like pure versus less pure biradri, and they will take voluntarily DNA tests in order to justify our efforts find common Iraqi ancestors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slari457 (talk • contribs) 05:36, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Restoration of Iraqi Biradri of Eastern Uttar Pradesh Wikipedia

Iraqi Biradri Wikipedia page is hacked and is not restored for the last one year or so. It is hoped that the Biradri guy from Kanpur who discovered Tamimi link to Biradri may be able to fix it. It is hoped that the Wikipedia volunteers will be helpful in this process. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.164.255.141 (talk) 20:03, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Lar town of the district Deoria U.P. India . Maqbool ahmed sifu (talk) 13:55, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Maqbool ahmed lari Sensei Maqbool ahmed sifu (talk) 13:56, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Patrilineal Lineages of Majority of the Eminent Personalities given under Iraqi Biradri may belong to Indo-European R1a1a Haplogroup .

The following paragraph is taken from the article written by the famous historian Dr. Suhail Zaheer Lari who, as a male member, is related to many notables presented under Iraqi Biradri. This genetic information, among others, is worth mentioning to indicate the ancient ancestral origin, which is Central Asia or West Asia, on the migration map of the living Iraqi Biradri of Eastern Uttar Pradesh. My own genetic marker, M17, appeared on the grassy steppes of the Ukraine or southern Russia in a man of the M173 lineage about 10,000 years ago. The early M17 peoples were nomadic steppe farmers. They were the first to domesticate the horse, which eased their numerous migrations. My M17 ancestors spread from Europe to India. They were responsible for the birth of the Indo-European languages, the world's most widely spoken language family, which includes English, the Romance Languages, Farsi, and various Indian tongues (Suhail Lari Pakistan). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.99.2 (talk) 18:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Genetic characterization, more specifically the paternal lineages, of Iraqis of the Eastern U.P.

Results on DNA Genealogy tests performed on some Iraqi individuals by both 23&Me, USA and YSEQ, Germany are worth noting. These individuals in addition to the known family history are from the distant families (not close family members) as judged by sharing/or viewing option of the autosomal DNA match under DNA Relative Section. The strength of which DNA matches are mainly due to recent common ancestors 300-400 years before in Eastern U.P. Paternal Y-DNA haplogroups are as follows: West Asian i.e Arab specific J1a/Z225 (J-CTS5368) 1/10; Neolithic West Asian J2a (under J-24 line) 1/10; distinct branches (Y7,Y6 and M560) of the Indo-European R1a1a > 70%; and South Asian H/or other haplogroups 0/10 or 0%. We wish the Arab and Indo-European composition of the male lineages predicted in Iraqis of the Eastern U.P. is confirmed by an actual work in some DNA Lab in India.,

References

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slari457 (talk • contribs) 19:01, 25 April 2019 (UTC) 

Identification of distinct family trees under Iraqi Biradri (Sunni Muslims) native to the towns and districts of Eastern U.P./North West Bihar.

This work is described in a book “Apno Ki Talash” which was edited originally by Janab Jalil Ahmad Lari (Daroga) and later is made available online by Dr. Tabrez Lari/Hakim Javed Ahmad Gauri. The efforts of those authors are commendable as they created a large number of distinguishable family trees within a single group of people- Iraqi Biradri, discovering the names of the ancestors accurately belonging to 8 -12 generations earlier in each family line.

However, each tree is lacking successive ancestors earlier than generation 10 including the root ancestor of a tree. In case of one or two, a hint of the name/migration time of the root ancestor that included, among them, Shaikh Abdul Ghafoor Khan who migrated from Iraq during the Emperor Akbar’s rule in14th century AD: see pages 21-32, Families under Shaikh Habinullah Pashim Mohallah, town Lar. If this is true, it is assumed that the oldest ancestors under most of the trees in the book are as old as ~ 600 years, resulting possibly from a single and common historical migration event from Iraq to the Eastern region of U.P. possibly in Ghazipur, India.

Obviously, it will be very difficult to know the root i.e. the oldest ancestor/or immediate to oldest descendants under each tree, from civil records. If any one is interested, experts in DNA genealogy may help find the historical time of the most recent common ancestor or the Last Ancestor in any family described in the book above. Some early data on DNA genealogy work related to Iraqi families described in the book is summarized below.

1.See Family trees under Shaikh Mazhar Ali and Shaikh Mohd Subhan, pages 42-43. The Phylogenetic tree of Y-DNA of a living descendant under Mohd Subhan is : M17/M198 R1a1a→Z93/Z94→ Y40→ M560 orY37/Y39.. It means every male under the Mazhar or Subhan family, the 8-9 generation old ancestor or even several thousand year old ancestors, will have the same Y-DNA haplogroups as shown here. According to Underhill (2015) the M560 Y-DNA haplogroup or M560 SNP has a common origin roughly equivalent to 5000-6000 years ago (likely somewhere in West Asia) . It could have migrated into Iran from Iraq or the opposite: Iran to Iraq. After its origin, people with M560 clades are dispersed, found in many geographical regions of the world. It is interesting to know when our ancestors with the M560 haplogroup, older than Subhan/Mazhar in our tree, migrated to U.P. To answer this,both Y-DNA (SNP) phylogenetic data presented here and Y- DNA STR data on Biradri members, are needed by the experts.

2. Pages 65-68 describes the tree under Shaikh Abdul Malik and his descendants of Nwanagar. A living descendant under the branch of Shaikh Haji Jabin of Nawanagar has the phylogenetic tree of Y-DNA: R1a1a→Z93/Z94→L657(or M780)→Y6. According to Underhill (2015) as above Y-DNA with Y6 haplogroup originated roughly 5000 years ago in Northern Areas of South Asia. People with Y6 haplogroup are found more in South Asia than the Middle East. Iraqis including their ancestors under the family tree of Nwanagar with Y6 Y-DNA haplogroup are distinct from the Iraqis described above with M560 Y-DNA.

3. Page 54 shows the family tree under Shaikh Malik Baba with descendants Janab Abdus Shakoor/ Janab Zahirul Hasan (Karachi), Mohalla Purab Lar. A descendant in their Family is reported to have Y-DNA M17/R1a1a haplogroup; further clades in the phylogenetic tree are not available.

4. Lastly, our experience of DNA tests by 23&Me is worth mentioning. Iraqi members referred to paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 are included in the DNA relative Section as distant 2-3 cousins based on the amount of the autosomal DNA we share. More importantly, similar DNA relatives with Y-DNA marked with J2 and at least one with J1 haplogroup have been found by us. We hope we could identify those DNA relatives in the family tree of Iraqis. Consistent with the family tree, some Y-DNA haplogroup data on Biradri supports the view that distinct ancestors with Indo-European Haplogroup R1a, Middle Eastern J2 and Arab J1 haplogroup were the founders of our biradari. The actual time of our earliest ancestors’ migration to Eastern U.P. needs to be worked out. References are shown at end of this Section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slari457 (talk • contribs) 05:57, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

DNA make-up (Quraishi)(PK)

As someone who is of Iraqi biradari lineage on the paternal side, please let me know what a dna test would show as results for an iraqi biradari individual, and if there is a way to see my past family tree/origins 78.18.87.123 (talk) 19:23, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Ancestry Test by 23andMe or FTDNA

In response to the above section DNA make-up Quraishi (PK), I have the following experience. In ancestry test without health report is less expensive, and you will get the following information: Y-DNA haplogroup -your male line in the family that you inherited from your ancestors thousand years before and will not change ever; your maternal line which is inherited from the mother side; autosomal DNA i.e. bulk DNA which relates you to world population groups mainly south Asians in our case; Bulk DNA relates you with individuals as DNA relatives in the family (as son, brother/sister, cousins etc) and also distantly with Biradri members. This information is based on the test by 23andMe. I have identified 10-20 distant Iraqi families from the DNA relative section of the result with option of "connect request", and common male lines noted in the Biradri, as useful information, is pointed out in the Wikipedia Article under Genetic background section. If you take the ancestry test by 23andMe, you will experience this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slari457 (talk • contribs) 18:03, 8 November 2022 (UTC)