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Talk:Hyatt Grand Central New York/GA1

< Talk:Hyatt Grand Central New York
Latest comment: 9 months ago by ZKang123 in topic GA Review

GA Review edit

Latest comment: 9 months ago69 comments2 people in discussion
Passed. ZKang123 (talk) 00:26, 11 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 10:10, 6 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

″

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):  
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):  
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):  
    b (citations to reliable sources):  
    c (OR):  
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):  
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):  
    b (focused):  
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  

Overall:
Pass/Fail:  

  ·   ·   ·  


To begin review soon.--ZKang123 (talk) 10:10, 6 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

  • Copyvio check - The 22.5% similarity for a source is due to direct quote lifting. Others highlighted were just reuses of common phrases. No other outstanding issues.

Lead edit

  • "It operated as the 2,000-room Commodore Hotel between 1919 and 1976. Hotel chain Hyatt and real estate developer Donald Trump converted the hotel to the 1,400-room Grand Hyatt New York between 1978 and 1980, encasing the facade in glass and renovating the interior. "
    • Suggest rewriting to: "It operated as the 2,000-room Commodore Hotel between 1919 and 1976, before hotel chain Hyatt and real estate developer Donald Trump converted the hotel to the 1,400-room Grand Hyatt New York between 1978 and 1980."
    • The clause "encasing the facade in glass and renovating the interior." seems unnecessary given it's elaborated in the third paragraph
  • "The hotel was either 26 or 28 stories high" - I guess there are conflicting sources? Maybe mention the overall height (in feet) instead in the lead? Sounds a bit confusing here. Otherwise, if there's no source of the height of the hotel then, just remove the part about the floors.
    • I've added the height and changed it to "up to 28 stories". Epicgenius (talk) 02:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "Trump and Hyatt's partnership deteriorated during the early 1990s, and the Pritzker family, which operated the Grand Hyatt, acquired Trump's stake in the hotel in 1996." -> "With the deteriorating partnership between Trump and Hyatt, the Pritzker family, which operated the Grand Hyatt, acquired Trump's stake in the hotel in 1996."
    • Done. I've also addressed some of the below issues already and will check them off later. Epicgenius (talk) 02:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Site edit

  • "There is a subway entrance at the base of the hotel on Lexington Avenue, with a stair and an elevator." -> "A subway entrance with a stair and an elevator is at the base of the hotel on Lexington Avenue"

Architecture edit

  • Warren & Wetmore.[12][1] -> Refs swap over
  • "When the Commodore opened, it contained 2,000 rooms and was either 26[3][16] or 28 stories high.[12][17] There were also five basement stories." -> Combine these two sentences (e.g. "28 stories high with five basement levels")
  • "Above the third story" -> Maybe suggest "third floor"? (try vary the word usage a little)
    • I've rephrased it. In some of my other articles, the third physical story may be numbered (for example) floor 2 or floor 4, hence this specific wording. However, this is not a problem in the article. Epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "gutted" - personally find it a weird usage here. Maybe "revamped" or "demolished"? Source states it's being reconstructed.
    • I've added another source. The NYT said the New York Biltmore Hotel was reconstructed, but the Biltmore was actually totally demolished except for its steel frame, something that is relatively uncommon in NYC (usually, developers would demolish the entire building). Epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "as well as" - I note the recurring use of this; try to consider using simple alternatives or vary the sentence structure.
  • "as well as a fire alarm system, which at the time of the hotel's opening was an uncommon feature" - why?
    • I'm not sure exactly why, but at the time of the hotel's construction, buildings were not required to have fire-safety features that are now commonplace, such as sprinklers and fire extinguishers. Epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "The central hallway continued to the grill room... At the rear of the vestibule was a grill room" - is it the same grill room?
  • Also might consider substituting "contained" with just "has/had" because I note it gets very repetitive too.
  • "Additional passageways connected with other buildings" -> Just to clarify, such passageways no longer exist? Also would remove "with" or might rewrite "The building used to connect with others such as..."
    • Some do, while others do not. The passageways to the Graybar Building and MetLife Building, for example, still survive today. Other passageways, including to the Biltmore Hotel, no longer connect with these buildings. Epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "There was a large palm tree in the middle of the lobby, which reached nearly to the ceiling." -> "A large palm tree in the middle of the lobby reached nearly to the ceiling" Also try to reword sentences with "there" since they tend to clutter the word flow.
  • "there were also stairs leading down to the street-level grill room" -> "stairs led down..."
  • "also included" -> "included"
  • "as well as provide sufficient space" -> "while providing sufficient space"
  • "There was a roof garden above the ballroom" -> "Above the ballroom was a roof garden for tea and luncheons"
  • "with a yellow, blue, and tan carpet." -> Are there three different carpets of different colours? Otherwise "yellow, blue and tan carpet" or "a carpet in yellow, blue and tan".
  • "The vestibule's high ceiling had three chandeliers" -> "Three chandeliers from the vestibule's high ceiling, which was painted..."
  • "the marble floors were covered by a carpet" -> Switch to active voice. Is it specified what's the carpet's colour(s)?
    • Done. Unfortunately, the source doesn't specify the colors; it just says that the colors "harmonize" with the marble. Epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "The western end of the vestibule contained" -> might I suggest "led to" instead of "contained"
  • "The hotel also contained a vehicular elevator from 42nd Street, which ascended to the viaduct level[27] and could carry up to 10,000 lb (4,500 kg)." -> Similarly "contained" to "included"
  • "contained its own "floor clerk"," comma is unnecessary
  • "Floor clerks acted as concierges for their respective stories. The floor clerk coordinated..." -> "Acting as the concierge for their respective stories, the floor clerk coordinated.."
  • "Each bedroom typically contained a bed, a dressing table, two small chairs, a large armchair, and a small table with a telephone. The bedrooms contained ornate light fixtures on the ceiling, as well as small writing tables with lamps"
    • Suggest "Each bedroom typically contained a bed, a dressing table, two small chairs, a large armchair, a small table with a telephone and other writing tables with lamps."
    • Depending on source, would say "Ornate light fixtures from the ceiling lit up the bedrooms". or "The bedrooms were retrofitted with ornate light fixtures from the ceiling".
  • Also no free-use photographs/diagrams available to illustrate the Commodore Hotel?
    • I will have to look, but I do think free-use images exist. Epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "If gambling in New York were legalized, the retail space was designed to be easily converted to a casino,[50] but this conversion never happened.[51]"
    • Suggest: "The retail space was designed to be easily converted to a casino but the conversion never happened as gambling in New York remained illegal."
  • "When the lobby was renovated in 2013, it was clad in stone and dark wood, and a carpet with gray stripes was installed. The ceiling was retrofitted with uplights that changed color depending on the time of the day. In addition, there were black leather chairs, as well as registration and concierge desks made of white quartz."
    • Suggest: "After the renovation in 2013, the lobby was clad in stone and dark wood, laid in a carpet with gray stripes and furnished with black leather chairs. The ceiling was retrofitted with uplights that changed color depending on the time of the day. The registration and concierge desks were made of white quartz."
  • "of female heads, for the lobby;" -> remove comma
  • and tiled walls.[54][51] -> swap over
  • "includes a second-story restaurant, cantilevered over" -> remove comma
  • "In addition, the restaurant contains a lounge and a private dining area." -> "The restaurant includes a lounge and a private dining area".
  • "one of the only parts" -> "one of the few parts". Also "to be preserved" -> "preserved"
  • "was equipped with a telephone and was used for room service." -> drop the second "was"
  • "The ballroom retains its carved ceiling, which measures 27 ft (8.2 m) high." -> carved ceiling measuring...
  • "The loft suites contain walnut furniture and other "masculine" design features" -> might suggest replacing "contain" with "are furnished with"

More to come for the subsequent sections.--ZKang123 (talk) 10:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

History edit

  • "in the Park Avenue Tunnel, the only approach to the depot." suggest using an endash/emdash instead of a comma.
    • I think that may break up the flow of the sentence. Generally I try to limit my use of dashes, only inserting them if other punctuation doesn't work. Epicgenius (talk) 14:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "After a fatal crash in 1902" - Maybe enlightened where the crash was and the casualties? Perhaps there's a wiki article?
    • The crash happened in the Park Avenue Tunnel. Unfortunately there is no separate article for the crash yet. Epicgenius (talk) 14:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • " the New York state legislature passed a law to ban all steam trains in Manhattan by 1908" - When was the law passed? I guess this ban is intended to ban all steam trains by 1908.
    • The law was passed in 1902, the same year as the crash. The law was indeed intended to ban steam trains by 1908. Epicgenius (talk) 14:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "was planning" -> "planned for"
  • "modified its plans in April 1913, avoiding the hospital site entirely." -> "modified its plans in April 1913 to avoid the hospital site entirely."
  • "the modified route" -> suggest "new route" given alr modification was mentioned in the clause just prior.
  • Hmm, but it looks like the same commission voted to retain the original alignment? Might add "However, the commission voted in favor..."
  • "in February 1915 for $902,500" -> add today's inflated value
  • "was to rise 26 stories" -> "was 26 stories tall" (the initial clause sounded weird)
    • I changed it to "was planned to be", since these plans may have been changed later on; other sources say that the hotel was 28 stories. Epicgenius (talk) 14:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • Ref 11 checks out
  • "delayed due to steel embargoes." - from which country?
    • Actually, I think it was a restriction on using domestically made steel. Although the steel came from the US, it was needed for the war effort. Epicgenius (talk) 14:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
      Would also clarify that point. Thanks ZKang123 (talk) 00:10, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
      Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "There were also delays in delivering limestone, linen, and carpets." -> Deliveries for limestone, linen and carpets were delayed
  • "one year prior, in 1918." -> either keep one year prior or 1918.
  • "visiting hoteliers." -> wouldn't visitors would do?
  • " after Prohibition in the United States was repealed" -> Remove the comma previously, maybe reword to "after the repulsion of the Prohibition"
    • In American English, "repulsion" is not a variant of the word "repealed", but rather "repulsed" (I'm not sure about elsewhere). Epicgenius (talk) 14:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "included Wendell Willkie, Republican nominee for the 1940 United States presidential election, who opened his personal headquarters there" -> "included Republican nominee Wendell Willikie, who established his personal headquarters for his campaign in the 1940 United States presidential election"
  • "took up some space" -> "occupied a part of"
  • "reedomland U.S.A., assumed" -> remove comma
  • "one of Donald Trump's first major projects." -> Trump's first major major projects
    • This would introduce a repeated word. I have removed Trump's name though. Epicgenius (talk) 19:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • "had opened in New York City" - remove had
  • "unidentified hospitality-industry expert estimated the next year that as many as 40 percent of the hotel's rooms were empty." -> estimated that 40 percent of the rooms would be empty in the next year
  • "expand the subway mezzanine, and expanding a subway entrance" -> "expand the subway mezzanine and a subway entrance..."
    • The demolition of the basement was only for expansion of the mezzanine. I believe the enlarged exit was in another location. Epicgenius (talk) 19:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
      Hmm maybe clarified that? ZKang123 (talk) 00:09, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
      Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
  • Unbold Hyatt Grand Central New York in history section

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 05:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

I don't see much issues for the reception part.--ZKang123 (talk) 05:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Images edit

All are free-use or in public domain. Though I felt there could be more photographs of the interior and some shops on the outside.

One of the captions: "The Hyatt Grand Central New York as seen from One Vanderbilt's observation deck" -> I might note the H-shape of the hotel mentioned earlier.--ZKang123 (talk) 05:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Alright. Overall, I think it's good enough to pass, but perhaps if this is brought further to FA, I suggest the addition of more images of the former Commodore Hotel and the existing interior of the hotel.--ZKang123 (talk) 00:26, 11 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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