Talk:History of Haitian nationality and citizenship

Comment

The page is starting to look good, keep it up!

• A short (one-to-three sentence) introduction at the start of the article would be useful.
• Replace "miscegenation" with a more neutral term.
• Use of "citizens" in the Code Noir section seems anachronistic. Aren't they just subjects of the king? Careful with your use of this term elsewhere as well.
• "Colonists and imperial administrators created a new public sphere by constructing racial sexual stereotypes unfit for civil life." The meaning of this sentence is unclear to me.
• Detail about uniqueness of free black planters under "Haitian Revolution" section is a repetition.
• It is a good idea to present two narratives, but explain why you do it by framing them more clearly (who produces each side?).
• Section on foreign recognition is interesting, but how does it pertain to nationality?
• The section on law is great. It is not all Constitutional law, however. How was "white" defined in these laws?
• In the diaspora section, do you mean "out of the question" instead of "unquestionable"?

Will Hanley (talk) 17:03, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Last Edit Summary

The accented E was supposed to be a question mark.174.3.102.6 (talk) 11:31, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

French-born vs. Colony-born (Creole) or Haitian

This can be a confusing subject many things, but I would like to limit this confusion and hopefully use the discussion here as a benchmark for future inquiries. Often times in sources, the French and French Creoles are lumped into one category. We mustn't make this mistake. All born on the colony were called Creoles, hence you would have (white, black, etc.), until Haiti gained its independence in which the demonym changed to Haitian, in which "Haiti" is actually the native name for the island (Hispaniola#History; or Pietro Martyr d‘Anghiera's accounts and other first historians who wrote about the island).

Jean-Paul Marat, a politician during the French Revolution attempted to distinction that when he wrote in 1792 that those in Saint-Domingue are "a separate people" from France [like in all French colonies at the time]. He cited the new constitution (of 1791), "The basis of all free government is that no people can be legally subject to another people..." (from "The Friend of the People" 1792. See the excerpt in Dubois & Garrigus, editors, "Slave Revolution in the Caribbean, 1789–1804", pp. 111–112). This is a small sample size. At first revolutionary Toussaint Louverture, wanted equality for all during this 1801 Constitution, but was careful enough not to claim Saint-Domingue as independent, but French, with full rights. However, it didn't go the way he planned exactly and Saint-Domingue (Haiti) ended up gaining full independence. The first constitution of Haiti named everyone black by law, in an attempt to end racial inequality by naming everyone to be the same (take that rationale however way you'd like, but at least it was a unique way).

Based on the Christopher Columbus theory (my personal take really), being born in the Republic of Genoa (but being called "Italian"; "Italy," the republic at least technically did not exist until after his death), I think it would also be safe to call anyone pre-Haiti (1804 republic) "Haitian" or if we must, Creole (French C..., White C..., Black C..., Mulatto C... etc.) as such also, providing updated sources of course (which in time sources will update itself, like in Columbus' situation; in which sources began to call him Italian); the latter may conflict with the Creoles from Louisiana however, therefore I would not fully recommend. Also, "Creole" has also been confusingly used to refer to free people of color (mulattos). It could also refer to the Spanish Creoles etc. It's just too ambiguous for my liking. Therefore, many 19th-century migrations to the United States or to Cuba etc. from Haiti (or formerly Saint-Domingue), are today incorrectly spoken as a "French migration", which is not so accurate. French descent, yes; French nationals? Not all were able to become citizens of France; usually a trip to France from the Caribbean to further one's education or further involvement in politics was a step closer towards it. Thoughts? Savvyjack23 (talk) 20:52, 18 February 2016 (UTC)