Talk:Guitar Songs/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: VersaceSpace (talk · contribs) 03:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. Nice to see you Elias! —VersaceSpace 🌃 03:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@VersaceSpace, hello, and likewise! We meet again; thank you for picking up this article . I hope your family are safe and well, and welcome back to editing. Will get back to you in ~4 hours, once my classes end ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
_{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 03:55, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Lede and infobox

• I see some attempts at flowery prose that I think accidentally come off as a bit awkward.
  • Here's an example: "The EP's release came as a surprise: Eilish had grown tired of doing promotion for new music, and she wanted to share new songs to her fans as soon as she can". That she's tired of promoting her music may belong in a section but it has no place in the article's third sentence. There's an accidental tense change at the end ("as soon as she can", "can" should be "could")
    • Good catch - trimmed those bits
• during the Manchester concert of her Happier Than Ever, The World Tour needs fixing, I get stating the tour name but it doesn't make much sense like this.
  • I piped the world tour link and reworded the whole thing. Should flow more smoothly now
• "via" flows better as "through"
  • Done

Background

• "A draft of the court decision was leaked online, in May 2022" contains an unneeded comma
  • Removed
• I think the leaked draft was a bit more than a suggestion
  • Reworded this since I think the original word did not convey the meaning I intended
• The part about her third album can be safely omitted since this article is not about that.
  • The rationale is true, but I disagree with removing it. The "release" section discusses how Eilish did not want to wait to release these songs via a third studio album.
• I'm just not seeing the importance of TV being her first preview since 2017. Doesn't seem encyclopedic; to me it reads as trivia. At most I would put it in the TV article, but probably not even there.
  • I changed the last section of that sentence to make it more relevant
• What did "Eilish g[e]t the idea" for? This is unclear
• You don't specify that "Boyfriends" is a song. A reader isn't expected to know Wikipedia's stylizations and therefore may think its an album, book, or other work.
  • Detail about the "Boyfriends" performance removed; I feel like that belongs better in the "TV" article anyway

Music and lyrics

• "Over an acoustic guitar" is what it should be, right?
  • Yep, that should be fixed now
• You did the "attributed to multiple refs" thing in another place, but not in this section's fourth sentence. Did you do this on purpose?
  • Nope, that should be fixed now
• "'TV', the first in the track list" the reader should know this is a song by now, but you should still specify that.
  • Fair enough
• "Drawing primarily from her recent life experiences" is unhelpfully vague, imo
  • "drawing" changed to "inspired"
• "to blame herself for the issues she currently faces in life", it won't be current eventually, so rephrase this
  • Rephrased

Release

• The "Without prior warning" link doesn't feel appropriate. WP:EASTEREGG comes to mind
  • I would not really say it's an easter egg because readers can glean from context clues what "without prior warning" pertains to --- the nature of the release --- so the article that comes up would not induce astonishment. I moved that bit after the release date so this meaning becomes clearer
• "By that date, Eilish and Finneas had written only the material for the EP" not sure what this is supposed to mean
  • Clarified
• "Eilish and Finneas headed for the Amoeba Music record store in Hollywood to play 'TV'" feels too positive in tone, specifically "headed for", maybe replace that
  • Better wording
• You don't link Manila here. Most people don't know what that is. In fact as I type this I can't remember whether that's in Singapore or the Phillipines.
  • Not done. Obviously hyperbole but "most people don't know what that is" is big energy. Manila is a national capital, specifically the capital of the Philippines, and one of the densest cities in the world. It has more people in it than Manchester, which isn't wikilinked here. I'd expect the general reader, who are not on either extreme of the demographic bias spectrum, to be "at least somewhat familiar" with the city as MOS:OL puts it.
    • @Your Power: Being a national capital is not a broad indicator of knowledge, neither is population. Lahore and Hyderabad have populations of over 10 million, but this article is about about an EP by an American artist. Do most non-Indian (or even Indian) Americans, or Europeans, or Africans know those two cities? I would say no. Same story with national capitals, Palikir is a start-class article that gets 3,000 views per month, without as much as a picture, and many other capital cities. "During the tour's Manila concert" doesn't specify what Manila is; also not contextually clear unless you've read about concert tours and understand the writing style/jargon. That's why we add links to begin with, to explain without having to explain. —VersaceSpace 🌃 13:58, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
    • Also, I think it's a bit unfair to bring up demographic bias without being certain you've checked your own, with all due respect. You're from the Philippines, so of course you'll know Manila. I'm from the US, and I do know what Manila is, but it didn't come to mind immediately when I read the passage. My knowledge of this country is limited to the following: 1) it's composed of islands, 2) it's in Asia, 3) LGBT people do not have an easy time there. That is less-than-surface-level knowledge about a whole country, and I suspect many Americans know even less than that. Most of us can't even name all 50 of our states. —VersaceSpace 🌃 14:17, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

      @VersaceSpace: Yeah, of course. I obviously should and do know about my own demographic bias in this - that is why my particular wording in the reply was "either extreme of the ... spectrum" because I fall on one extreme. Regardless, in hindsight I acknowledge that my argument about what determines the "popularity" of the city fell flat now that you have countered what I said, and I apologise.

      But "how many people recognise this city" is besides the point. Saying "Eilish is American, so readers might not expect mentions of non-American cities to be relevant" is a fairer, stronger argument for the wikilinking - I got the same argument for WLing Manchester in the "TV" FAC, and I had no problem implementing that suggestion. So it would only be fair for me to do the same here - both with Manila and Manchester. With that, this suggestion can be considered  Done. Again apologies that we had to go on a somewhat lengthy ramble here ^^; ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
      _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 16:19, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

      @Your Power: recognition and expectation are pretty much the same argument, the only difference being that the former is total. In both cases the reader stumbles with the text, which we don't want. I'm glad we came to a resolution —VersaceSpace 🌃 22:24, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Eilish remarked that it was hard to sing for her due to its personal lyrics" feels a bit wordy
  • Trimmed

Critical reception

• "Prior to the release of the EP, 'TV' quickly became a favorite among Eilish's fans." didn't the songs release at the same time?
  • Yes, but "TV" received a preview (the tour performance) whereas "The 30th" didn't. Since fans already heard "TV" even before the EP was released, it became a fan favorite, at least according to the source(s).
    • Then instead of using "prior to the release of the EP", why don't we use "following the live performance" or something along those lines. —VersaceSpace 🌃 14:23, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
      • Tweaked ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
        _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 16:23, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Track listing

• "Both" instead of "all" tracks
  • Template:Track listing has an all_writing parameter and it automatically produces "All tracks are written" regardless of how many tracks there are. Even then both ways are equally as valid, and hence I see no need to change it
    • "Both" would be more specific though, since there are exactly two tracks. If you're not able to change it due to the template, then it's fine —VersaceSpace 🌃 14:21, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Overall

• Copyvio score is okay.
• Putting this  On hold. Pinging Your Power. —VersaceSpace 🌃 20:19, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
  • Done with the responses @VersaceSpace, please take a look and see if they're sufficient. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
    _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 09:37, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
    • Good. I'm passing this —VersaceSpace 🌃 22:27, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
      • Thank you for another helpful review! Hope to see you again onwiki soon ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
        _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 23:53, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.