Talk:Gangnam/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: AryKun (talk · contribs) 12:39, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

• Will do. AryKun (talk) 12:39, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

• You don’t need the references in the lead.
  • The reference is for the region historically being called Yeongdong, which is not mentioned in the body of the article and reasonably qualifies as a "basic fact" under WP:LEAD.
    • I meant the reference about it being one of the most expensive retail markets in the world.
• For the footnote in the lead, you don’t need the excerpts; they actually seem like part of the lead, not additional citations, Split them off into another footnote and move them down into the body.
  • Not quite sure what you mean here, but I've duplicated the footnote in the body as well.
    • I meant you don't need the excerpts from the books in the note, see this diff for a mock-up.
• The lead currently only covers the history and geography of the region; there’s nothing about the economy, arts, culture, and politics, which are what I’d argue it’s better known for internationally.
  • God I had an edit for it and then my computer decided to shut down 😭 I'll get started on redoing my work, but I'm just really frustrated about that because I had such a good edit almost ready. :3 F4U (they/it) 13:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• “in counterpoint” does not seem like the correct word, maybe in contrast instead?
  • Counterpoint is the correct word here. Counterpoint here means "in comparison to", "in contrast to", and "in juxt aposition to" all at once. [1] It's the phrasing the source used and its not an uncommon one. [2]
• Are all three mountains part of some greater mountain range that can Ben mentioned instead, or they just three individual mountains that happen to be close together?
  • Just close together. Seoul has a lot of mountains.
• “overly concerned over” should be “overly concerned with”
  • Corrected.
• Chaebol should be in a Lang template
  • I've italicized the term, but why would it need to be in a lang template?
    • Apparently the template you're supposed use in this case in Transliteration, not lang. I've added the former.
      • I strongly disagree with adding the template. This is a pretty commonly used English-language word now. You can find this word in plenty of prestigious English-language dictionaries including Cambridge, Merriam-Webster, Collins, Oxford, etc. :3 F4U (they/it) 13:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• “buildings are found ” should be “is found”
  • Rephrased the sentence.
• “as of 2011” no statistics that are more recent?
  • No, I haven't been able to find anything more recent. It's not from census data, as far as I can tell. I believe the museum came up with the estimate themselves. I've checked the South Korean atlas, with no results.
• “and exemptions to promote“ exemptions from what?
  • Whoops, meant to write tax exemptions.
• Images are used well and properly licensed.
• You could add images to the Education and Transportation sections.
  • The representative Gangnam station only has stuff like File:Gangnam-station-entrance-12-20181121-143234.jpg, which don't provide a clear benefit to the article if included. As for schools, what would really work would be a picture of some of the hagwons in Gangnam, but I did a pretty comprehensive search about 6 months ago to no avail. It would not benefit the article to include the picture of a single school.
    • It's better than having no photo, and we have photos of most of the prestigious schools you mention in the text, so it's not like we don't have options.
      • I don't agree and I think an image like that fails to be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative. (MOS:IMAGES) :3 F4U (they/it) 13:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• The image in politics does help illustrate the divide between Gangnam answers the rest of Seoul, but is less helpful without the caption explaining who’s the conservative candidate and who’s the liberal candidate.
  • Added the party names and also removed the yellow as per WP:CAPTIONOBVIOUS
• Some initial comments, will review further later. AryKun (talk) 03:46, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Further comments

• I have performed a full copy-edit of the article, implementing changes that I felt would be uncontroversial. Feel free to discuss any that you might disagree with.
• "government implemented various economic" maybe "announced various" would sound better.
• "nearly 1000 times" sounds like they increased on one thousand separate occasion, maybe "thousand-fold" and "twenty-five-fold" would be better.
• "to regain their reputations" How exactly would switching their locations improve the reputations of these schools? If high school entrance exams had been abolished, just moving to Gangnam wouldn't do much for their reputations.
• "received considerable pushback from the central government" Why?
• "Following the relocation of the Supreme Court of Korea" when did this happen?
• "1 billion won" How much is this to people unfamiliar with the value of a won?
• "residents chastising other parts" How can you chastise a place? Denigrate would be better here.
• "수입차 하이웨이" Romanization?
• "1995 Seoul Statistical Yearbook" Nothing more recent?
• "The region is...population boom" The clauses on either side of the em-dash don't fit grammatically with each other, needs rewording.
• "and the end of the South Korean ban on private tutoring" The end of the ban doesn't seem like it would be a reason for the concentration of hagwons in that area specifically.
• "with the vast majority of residents having at least a bachelor's degree" Repetitive and needs actual percentages.
• "opened the Jamsu Bridge in 1976, and excavated the Third Namsan Tunnel in May 1978" were both of these also built to promote use of the bus terminal?
• "The stations between the Sports Complex station and the Seoul National University of Education station" You don't actually mention which stations opened between these two.
• In the see also, Education in South Korea and Fashion in South Korea seem like articles that are too broad to be related too closely to this article.

References

• I have changed the sectioning to a more standard format per MOS:REFERENCES.
  • This reference system is fine and is used elsewhere. See the Featured article Why Marx Was Right for an example. :3 F4U (they/it) 14:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

  That article has completely separated the citations (in the sfn format) and the works it cites. It makes less sense when there are ful references IN the citations, like we have for this article. Then the works we're splitting aside as "References" and the ones we just cite directly in "Citations" are split somewhat arbitrarily. AryKun (talk) 14:24, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

• All sources seem to be reliable and most are correctly formatted. Citations to primary sources are used appropriately for basic factual information about the subject.
• Son, Ji-hyoung; Jie, Ye-eun; Byun, Hye-jin (November 18, 2021). "Gangnam fantasy: Land of longing". The Korea Herald. Has formatting errors.
  • Fixed, though this is outside the GA criteria
• Song, Sung-hoon (February 22, 2016). "Samsung Electronics leaves Seoul headquarters". Pulse. Maeil Business Newspaper. Actually states that Samsung is leaving its Gangnam headquarters, you need to amend the sentence mentioning headquarters to reflect this.
  • It does not, actually. It states that Samsung Electronics is leaving its Seoul headquarters, but states that the Samsung Group will stay in Gangnam. Korean chaebols are confusing haha :3 F4U (they/it) 14:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

  My bad, forgot that Samsung makes stuff other than electronics for a moment. AryKun (talk) 14:24, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

• Spot-checks:
  • 김, 영필 (November 26, 2021). "바이든은 '강남 좌파?'…수백억대 저택서 연휴" [Is Biden a "Gangnam Leftist?"...Holidays in multi-million dollar mansions]. Seoul Economic Daily. Verifies all claims made.
  • "Hyundai Korea". Hyundai Motor Company. Verifies all claims made.
  • Marshall, Colin (August 15, 2022). "The door opened by 'Gangnam Style'". The New Yorker. Verifies all claims made.
  • "A darker past in 'Gangnam 1970'". The Korea Herald. Verifies all claims made, but I have tweaked the article bit to better reflect what the movie is about.
  • Kang, Hyun-kyung (July 28, 2019). "Megachurches in Korea: Why they face calls to be born again". The Korea Times. Verifies all claims made.
  • Kim, Minjeoung (June 1, 2011). "Deux Séoul, Gangnam et Gangbuk"[Two Seouls, Gangnam and Gangbuk]. Hérodote (in French). Verifies all claims made.
  • Jin, Min-ji (February 11, 2023). "How did Gangnam become the Seoul epicenter it is today?". Korea JoongAng Daily. Verifies all claims made.

• That's all I have. AryKun (talk) 16:04, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

  Courtesy ping Freedom4U. AryKun (talk) 16:36, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

  FYI, I see you've been replying to some of my replies- I haven't saved any of them yet, so you won't be able to see the changes yet. :3 F4U (they/it) 14:26, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

  Freedom4U, any update? AryKun (talk) 14:49, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

  @AryKun Sorry for the lack of updates, I just got back from a 4-day trip. I'll be able to get this done by Friday if that's good with you ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 12:25, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

  Yeah, sure, no problem. AryKun (talk) 13:25, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

  Freedom4U, I'll hold this for another week, but will fail by next weekend if there isn'y any more progress on the issues raised. AryKun (talk) 15:31, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

  Freedom4U, another reminder. AryKun (talk) 15:33, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you! I'm really sorry about the delay, I have a lot of irl stuff getting in the way atm, but I will be working on it and get it in by Friday. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 15:43, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

  Freedom4U, final reminder. I'm loath to fail this but there hasn't been any significant work on the article in nearly three weeks. AryKun (talk) 13:05, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

  @AryKun I'm sorry, but I think it would be better off to fail this now and for me to renominate it later once I have more time to improve it. I have a lot of things going on irl right now and I just wouldn't be able to do justice to the article right now. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 21:48, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

  Alright, I'll fail it. AryKun (talk) 10:25, 3 September 2023 (UTC)